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Hi All,
We have (K’EH) 6 kids. Till now I did the dishes Friday night. Frankly, I felt it took too much time (20 mins) and told my wife that I’d like to switch to paper. She wasn’t interested saying that it isn’t kovod shabbos and if I don’t want to do the dishes she will. She claims that most families of our size use china on a regular Shabbos.
Just wondering, what do you do?
Thanks,
Heshy
We use china and I feel it definitely enhances our shabbos. Paper just wouldn’t be the same. We have 9 by our meals. How about investing in a dishwasher?
It’s a bit on the expensive side, but there is paperware that looks extremely kovodig and can be mistaken for formal dinnerware (until you touch it or look at it carefully). Same goes for cutlery. I don’t think anyone but the most pureblooded Hungarian would have a problem putting this type of disposable product on the Shabbos table.
Our family is of similar size to yours. We don’t have a dishwasher, and use disposable dishes on Shabbos.
Well I guess it matters first if you are Hungarian or Polish and second if you don’t mind the to answer to the shadchan that its paper…
My family is smaller than that (I grew up with 3 sisters) and we always used china. But, we had enough dishes to last friday night and shabbos day, so we just loaded them into the dishwasher.
Its not a big deal to use paper at all, I just like the look of china on the table.
Just wondering, what do you do?
Your next topic should be “Do you Scrape or Stack?”
Are you a shadchan?
Heshy, YOU DO THE DISHES???? Wow!!! What a wonderful husband!!!
How about a compromise – disposables for fish or soup, dessert, etc.
Do what ever brings the most shalom bayis. Do not sweat the small stuff.
Heshy-
Tip #1-Invest in a big dishwasher, and buy more dishes-not expensive one’s
#2-Give everyone real china and the really little kids give them plastic-they sell really nice shabbos plastic-besides saving you dishes to wash you save yourself a few less broken dishes!In my house we always do this!My parents were not prepared to give a 3 year old china plates to break!
Tip #4- Compromise have china for Shabbos night and day and not shalosh seudos- or have china but nice plastic cups!
Tip #5-Ask a cleaning lady to come for 2 hours on shabbbos night or day-you can leave the dirty dishes in a neat pile for the next day-WE did that on Pesach and it saved everybody a lot of Agmas Nefesh!
It doesn’t really matter if you have plastic or china!However china adds a special ambieance to a Shabbos table that you are not going to get with plastic!
“Heshy, YOU DO THE DISHES???? Wow!!! What a wonderful husband!!! “
yeah, i hope ur wife appreciates this, my husband doesnt mind helping with diff things around the house, but he would not appreciate doing the dishes!!
As for the dishes, we eat on china and I do not have a dishwasher.
BY2, my family always ate on china from a young age. We give my 1 year old a china plate. We want him to learn from an early age how to behave at the table. His high chair is also a chair that sits at the table so he joins us for meals. Its called the Stokke Tripp Trapp and I love it. None of my siblings ever threw the plate on the floor – we all learned early on not to mess with the china.
I like using China on Shabbos – one tip that i learned from Lori Palatnik /Aish – was to prepare a big plastic bowl of soapy boiling water before shabbos (covered w/foil) – as I take dishes off the table i just dump it into the bowl, and it practically cleans it by itself – then after the meal, washing the dishes is really a breeze (except for dessert chocolate syrup!) (even if i put in dishwasher – i still like to wash friday night’s dishes to make sure i have enough, and to make sure they get clean in my not so amazing dishwasher)
SJSinNYC
My parents of course want my siblings to eat like a mentch at the table,however one of my siblings was very active and it wasn’t worth risking broken China, when this sibling got more mature then that sibling got to use china!
I wash the dishes shabbos morning, having had them soak overnight using seeallsides method. Who has strength to deal with dishes friday night now that the zman is so late? I would rather get to bed and wash up the dishes in the morning.
When I’m not feeling well, I’ll use real glasses and cutlery but I will use nice dishes that can be reused or thrown out. I bought some really nice ones at amazing saving, also at costco. I don’t even own real china, don’t have the space for it, and my correl dishes are light and easy to wash. They are nice enough for me, they make them in all kinds of pretty designs these days.
Is it ok if we use stoneware and not china? May one use the same flatware on Shabbat that they use the rest of the week?
my in laws use china generally, but they will serve some things in plastic, for example dessert. Also they have no problem bringing out the cole slaw in the container they bought it in. SO they have amixture there. By my parents even water comes out in a pitcher!
I hate paper/plastic dishes. The food tastes and looks better in real, to me.
If I were in your situation (which I’m not) I’d use real and put them in the dishwasher (or in the oven–as long as it’s off- if you don’t own a dishwasher) after they’re used and then use new ones on Shabbat day and wash them on Saturday night.
I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with using disposable dishes, and if it makes your Shabbat easier and happier, go for it. It’s just my personal preference.
cantoresque, you can, but your kids won’t get shidduchim 🙂
Our weekday meat dishes are stoneware. And not cheap either – I just loved their versatility of being able to go oven to table to dishwasher or freezer. I can put individual portions in bowls and cook right in it. Its fantastic and easy to clean.
SJS, my daughter got a great shidduch with our Shabbos Correlle. When we can afford a new set I think I may go with stoneware or gorgeous correlle as I’m a bit of a klutz.
LOL Tzippi, I wasn’t being serious 🙂
I love my Denby stoneware. I’m kind of sorry that I didnt get stoneware for dairy also because then I could have done lots of melted cheese dishes like onion soup. Yum. I highly recommend denby but they arent cheap. You can watch for sales and get dinner plates for around $15/plate. But remember, thats ONLY dinner plates. You would also need smaller plates, cups, etc.
You might want stoneware bakeware instead of dishes. I find it so easy to clean and I worry less than with metal or non-stick.
Our family is the same size as well. We use china. I usually do the dishes. Winter time is torture with the water so cold, so sometimes I would prepare a huge pot of hot soapy water and use that to wash the dishes and glasses. All the kids get dishes, but little kids get plastic cups. I have large goblets and they are hard for little ones to hold.
Also, the thought of all those disposable plates filling up landfills, would make me feel guilty using.
we have aprox 15 by each meal(if not more) and we always use china-me and my sis take turns washing and we have a dishwasher that we use shabbos day—we use nice plastic/paper for succos and pesach and my father hates it
you can wear gloves when washing the dishes they really help
up untill about 3 yrs ago i always used plastic and my hubby hated it but felt bad for me but now that i moved into a apartment that has a dishwasher..i only use dishes.first time i used plastic in a long time was pesach i had about 20 ppl. eating here i dont have enough china for that many.
Ames: I believe it’s not the putting the dishes in that’s the problem, but the rinsing of the dishes.
I think it’s similar to the fact that some people won’t clean up after Seudah Shelishit. It’s like they’re preparing for Motza’eh Shabbat. (But I was told–not by a Rabbi–that if you’re the type that a mess or dirty dishes would bother you, you can.)
You can put in the dirty dishes in the dishwasher on Shabbat for sure. If you have a housekeeper, I think she can even turn it on,(Of course, you couldn;t tell her to do it)
CNP mentioned using rubber gloves, to help aid washing dishes in cold water on Shabbat. I do that too. But like I said, I try to prepare hot water before shabbat just to wash the dishes, especialy if I make a roast. The fat on the dishes is hard to get off when the water is cold.
sjs, I knew you were joking. I think I was just preoccupied with the insanity from another thread.
I don’t think anyone but the most pureblooded Hungarian would have a problem putting this type of disposable product on the Shabbos table.
cant argue with that. 😉
not too many home on a regular shabbos, we use dishes, not glasses, and I wash sometimes.
ames, there is a way to shut off the hot water tank (I have no clue how) so it doesnt refill and no water is cooked on shabbos.
insuranceguy-
Do what ever brings the most shalom bayis. Do not sweat the small stuff.
Your answer is by far the best (no insult intended to any other poster).
kapusta-
I know a bit about plumbing, and I don’t see how the hot water tank feed can be cut off and still have hot water come from the faucet. If the water heater is higher than the faucet, or air pressure can somehow fill the empty part of the tank, it would work.
When I was a camp waiter a year or two ago (ha!) we used to put away the perishables after shalishudos, but the rest of the cleanup was done motzei Shabbos.
ICOT, I havent the faintest idea of what you just said, but I’ll admit, it sounds good. 😉 I know someone who used to shut off (something) and the hot water tank never refilled on shabbos, or maybe it just refilled with cold water and didnt boil it. Something along those lines.
random: where does china get the name “china” from?
kapusta: probably from china 😉
1- there defiantly is a way to shut of the hot water and use the remaining water in the tank
2- We recently had a Shabbaton in the house for girls who were pretty much on the way to keeping Shabbos (or already there) and we ended up using china for everyone, and the girls were so impressed! They really got the feeling that Shabbos- it means everything to us and we’ll do everything for it.
although i couldn’t agree more about Shalom Bayis. If there’s no Shalom, no Shechiena…
Do whatever brings more oneg Shabbos! Some get more hanoh from china, some from not needing to do dishes. To each their own and each is 100% correct if you do what gives you Oneg Shabbos.
kapusta-
ambush-
The “hot water on Shabbos” question was discussed on another thread, here:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/hot-water-on-shabbos
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FireThis is a cut-away view of a gas water heater (I left out the chimney, don’t worry about it).
The cold water coming in goes straight to the bottom of the tank via the long pipe, while the hot water exiting leaves from the top of the tank thru the short pipe.
This arangement helps ensure that the hot water is used up first, and that the water is kept hot throughout the tank due to convection.
If the cold water intake is shut off, there will be no pressure forcing the hot water out when a sink faucet’s “hot” tap is turned on.
Furthermore, even if the sink is below the water heater it may not siphon much because of vacuum that will build in the tank as water is drained.
Even if an air valve is opened on the top of the tank (preventing a vacuum from forming) or even if positive air pressure is pumped in, the tank will only drain until the water level reaches the bottom of the “hot water out” pipe – not a whole lot of water.
There is a device (NOT accepted by all poskim) that supposedly can make hot tap water allowable on Shabbos, by keeping the temperature below “yad soledes bo” temperature.
We have around 12-15 every shabbos (sometimes more) and we always use china. Guess who washes? Yup, I do it, and I survived. No, I don’t love doing it but it’s really not that bad. There is very nice disposable paper/plastic, but it isn’t the same. It also isn’t that cheap, btw. Besides, my mother would NEVER stand for it, and she’s not Hungarian.
~a~
The answer is very simple. When the Yenta is coming you use china, of course. When the Yenta is not there, you use plastic.
Isn’t WHO you have AT your table much more kovod ha-Shabbos than WHAT you have ON your table? If someone is having 12-15 guests every Shabbos, yeyasher kocham, and I bet those guests are happer to have been invited, than worried about china or paper (and I like china).
until we got china, we used plastic every week for BOTH meals. now we have service for 23 (we lost one of each so we dont have service for 24 anymore) and i wash what we need. i dont do it after the meal though- after the fish, i serve the soup and then quickly rinse the fish plates that we will need. i clean the big plates after everything has been brought in. one thing i do to make it easier is that i try not to stack the plates- that way i really only have to clean one side of the plate, and the bottom doesnt get greasy.
that i try not to stack the plates- that way i really only have to clean one side of the plate, and the bottom doesnt get greasy.
Good point – but where do you put all the non-stacked plates? I have absolutely no room in my kitchen.
anonymrs
Member
then quickly rinse the fish plates that we will need.
anonymrs, I’m almost sure about this, but ask your LOR. I remember hearing, if you need (lets say) 4/10 dirty dishes you can wash all ten, not only the ones you need.
Oomis, I quickly rinse off each dish as they are brought to me individualyy. I have each kid bring me in their plate, one at a time, so I can avoid washing the backs of each each dish. They go to the dishrack to air dry.
The big question comes up this week when we have shvuos and then shabbos right away meaning we have to wash dishes on yom tov for shabbos (eruv tavshilin allows that), for this type of situation many more will use paper for one of the 2 days. The halacha tells us that if one has to make a choice about clothing for shabbos and yom tov, the nicer clothing should be used on yom tov rather than for shabbos, I wonder if the same would go for the china/paper choice for shabbos and yom tov. Actually this question is only relevant in Israel where the second day is ONLY shabbos not in chutz Laaretz where both days are yom tov so I guess the second day which has BOTH shabbos AND yom tov would be the prefferable choice (if it works out practicaly).
“Shabbos Seudah – China or Paper”
B”H, we dont have to eat either. We have delicious fish, chicken, kugels and chulent 🙂
“Shabbos Seudah – China or Paper”
B”H, we dont have to eat either. We have delicious fish, chicken, kugels and chulent 🙂
LOL
i wash what i know i need plus a few more, just to be safe. i dont usually mind washing dishes, but somehow washing them with cold water just doesnt have the same relaxing affect on me that washing with hot water does.
i also see that no one has answered the dishwasher question yet, so i will attempt to repeat what i was told.
you may put dishes into the dishwasher as long as there is no light inside that goes on when you open it. also, if there is a light on the outside, you have to make sure that is off before you open it, otherwise opening it will cause the light to go off.
loading the dishwasher is another story. i was told that you can put things in, but you MAY NOT properly load them in, as this would be hachana (preparation). i just stack my stuff up and put it in however it fits.
jphone
Member
“Shabbos Seudah – China or Paper”
B”H, we dont have to eat either. We have delicious fish, chicken, kugels and chulent 🙂
if you would come here, you could get some kapusta… 😉
I don’t have a dishwasher (well, I DO, actually, but he doesn’t like it when I introduce him that way). 🙁
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