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I know both young people personally. They both have wonderful personalities and fantastic middos. And they are so much alike (interests, hobbies, talents etc). They happen to have observed each other my shabbos table and each expressed admiration for the other…one small problem:
He is a serious Lakewwod boy with long-term kollel ahead of him while she is a MO girl brought up with every kulah in halacha (including wearing pants) that will never adopt the chumros of yeshivish standards.
Can a shidduch be successful if they are on the ‘same page’ in everything except their hashkofas? In other words, can they be happily married and build a beautiful while each does their own religious lifestyle without interfering in the other’s religious observances?
(I have heard of certain great rabbonim and gedolim who had wives that were not on their level of religious observance – but still managed just fine).
???????? She wears pants and he is in Lakewood?
“Can a shidduch be successful if they are on the ‘same page’ in everything except their hashkofas? ” IMHO rarely.The OPs proposed shidduch isn’t much different than a Lakewood guy with a wife wearing short skirts.
A wife is required to change to her husband’s minhagim and shittos, upon marriage.
Why don’t you ask them individually flat out?
There have been successful marriages of couples with variant haskofos. Hershey chocolate above is a good example.
Even rabbonim and their rebbetzins don’t always match up exactly the same. The late Lubavitcher Rebbe’s wife was reportedly a more modern woman.Just because the boy is considered a long term lerner, does not always mean he is a serious bachur and just because she was brought up modern ortho does not mean she isnt a serious girl.
Case in point the bmg rosh yeshiva went to a modern day school with classmates who werent shomer shabbos.A marraige is foremost Eizer Kenegdo – for the wife to support her husbands Avodas haShem (not financialy – thats his problem). Generally a woman who wears pants is not gonna encourage her husband to learn more and grow in his avodas HaShem unless she is also growing and learning contiuously and aims to reach perfection. So its not only about the homes they come from its about their perspective. If they are both heading for the same goal then a marraige can help both to acheive that. But if the end games are miles apart there will always be friction. Not worth the risk.
“Can a shidduch be successful if they are on the ‘same page’ in everything except their hashkofas?”
What’s left to agree on? Physical attraction?
I don’t know why I’m indulging as I’m 98% sure this is trolling.
The main thing a guy needs to consider in a potential shidduch, as Chazal tell us, is the girl’s brothers. Because his children will turn out like her brothers.
Sounds like a great catch for him as long as they move to a “neutral” place like Rockaways or Staten Island and if she is willing to “adopt” to the Lakewood model when she visits the in-laws. Yes, there have been some great “mixed-marriages” in history but they require a lot of effort on the part of both parties and they must really have a lot of love and respect for one another.
Plenty quote on quote yeshivish girls whos husbands are in kollel dress mire pervocatively then many mo girl’s.
Still trying to fig out what yeshiva Reb Gol. is in
Rebbitzen Goldenpickanicerscreenname -“Can a shidduch be successful if they are on the ‘same page’ in everything except their hashkofas?”
Not in a Million Years! I’m divorced & my Ex-wife and me weren’t that far apart.
Mr. Rebbetzin, I’m not sure what you’re האַקן אַ טשײַניק. There’s no Halacha, either, that you cannot marry a glutton who dresses like a shlemazal and spends 11 hours a day reading Harry Potter.
Why in the world would you reject an “eitza tova” from Chazal??
I’m divorced & my Ex-wife and me weren’t that far apart.
Maybe there were other factors besides differences in hashkafa.
“Everything except hashkafos.” Interesting phraseology. Quite specific, in fact.
For a marriage to succeed, I think, you need to have two people who care about each other enough to make sacrifices for each other, and who are committed to making the relationship work. Could it work? Of course. Is there inherent harm in introducing a shidduch idea to two adults who will then make their own decisions? Of course not.
I guess what I’m struggling with is what my hashkafa is on the scope of the word hashkafa as it pertains to stereotyping individuals and regarding playing semantic games relative to a non-issue.
Rebbetzin: how Yeshivish is he if he “observed her…and expressed admiration”? Not.
Reb Golden- it is not our place to decide they shouldn’t be together. They have already met at your table and admired each other. Perhaps they can find a compromise that works for them. Maybe she will be inspired to become more traditional to support him. There’s a chance he will study harder in kollel so that he can find a job to support her afterwards. Or… maybe they will each follow their own path with a few simple agreements (no pants around his family), and focus on everything else that makes them a beautiful couple. Love makes people want to sacrifice to keep their spouse happy
Joseph- I have heard that a woman marries someone with her father’s personality, or a man marries his mother’s personality, but I can promise you that my children’s personalities are nothing like any of their aunts and uncles, and my nephews/ nieces are not much like me.
Funnybone- exactly what i was thinking
Scary, but my short term memory is giving me fits lately.
Only a month ago I read a tshuva from a rav who was asked by a prospective mechutan about the girl’s brother who was a “character”, and mentioned the Chazal, fearing the shidduch because of it. I can’t remember the rav’s name now.
Basically, he said that people for years lived in close proximity for almost their entire lives , as was in time of Chazal, so they learned from each other. Nowadays, he said , a brother might not be living in the same area, the family itself may residing in a larger communitu , so that there isn’t only one way of thinking and/or learning bad middos from another necessarily. So the brother fear doesn’t apply anymore. I’d add myself, that people these days are more engrossed with outside influences due to easier communication withe outside world, and almost certainty of family members living out of area and don’t spend their days mingling with each other as much as was years ago.
The rav told them to go for it if all else looks good.The issue with clashing hashkafos is how will they raise kids?
If one parent allows them to wear pants and another doesn’t?
Like how does that work. I’m pretty sure you can have different opinions but you need to be looking for the same way of life and end goals.Mistykins: I only said about the wife’s brothers. Nothing about aunts and nieces. If you disagree with that, you need to argue with Chazal not with me.
There’s quite a discernible difference between relatively small hashkafik differences and hashkafik differences in regards to Halacha. For example, a boy wanting to sit and learn can technically be compatible with a girl who wants her husband to work. That’s something which has the couple has the ability to work around. When the Hashkafik difference is how to approach Halcha, which is probably rooted in a very different outlook on life, the story is completely different. For example, a woman covering her hair is a Halacha. The majority of MO who refuse to do it don’t do so out of a Halachic argument (da’as yehudis v.s. da’as ) rather out of precedent- they know there were some very distinguishable people who’s wives didn’t cover their hair. To that end, resulting from a certain Hashkafik outlook on Halacha, that may be enough to justify not covering one’s hair, but to one with a different outlook that’s an indefensible position. The rest of your example’s are presumably where there are a variety of poskim who are meikil- the conversation is whether or not to be mor emachmir on oneself or not. But in the larger picture of MO and mkore particularly the type of MO who would wear pants aren’t merely parting ways in matters which are solely Hashkafik in nature; they allow those Hashkafos to influence decisions which someone else would view as an actual breach of Halacha
funnybone:
Rebbetzin: how Yeshivish is he if he “observed her…and expressed admiration”? Not
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SPOT ON!
Also a boy who is considered a long time learner these days is no longer a gauge.
In many cases its done because of social pressures and or a copout way of saying “i dont want to work , so suport me !”Ref. my earlier post. I’m researching the sefer in which I saw it, but I do recall it wasn’t stamm a local rabbi.. It was a rav, an gadol.
Rebbetzin Goldpick…; So you are MO yourself, apparently.
yes Neville, you are a troll.
Huh, Rebbetzin! Moshe Rabbeinu said one child for Avodah Zora!?
It’s not complicated.
Set them up, let them go out, and let them decide for themselves.
That’s much better than a few dozen anonymous know-it-alls controlling their lives via the internetMsybe with enough influence from her, she would convince him to wear a skirt and sholom al yisroel. Aa it is the toles are reversed anywsy by kollel guys where the wife is the breadwinner. Same with pants / skirt
Joseph- we can take aunts and nieces out of the topic. My children are nothing like my brother in laws.
I think what you mean is that in an ideal family, you want to marry someone that is like your mother/ sister (or the wife’s father/ brothers) because you want to emulate the family values. Other times, you look at the flaws in your family and do everything you can to marry someone that is different, to spare your children the issues that you grew up with.
When we first married, we discussed what we didn’t care for in our parents relationships, or what we didn’t like about how we were raised, and agreed to change some things in our children. Our parents had both made some pretty big mistakes. And you know what? So have we. Some days, I strive for perfection in them. Some days, I say “if you can be a better man than your father, I will be happy.” There’s a certain pride in knowing your son has achieved more than you.
And sometimes, you need to find someone with different hashkafos to give you a new perspective.
“Also a boy who is considered a long time learner these days is no longer a gauge.”
“long term learner”.
Its a meaningless phrase, like “tops in the yeshiva” or outgoing, but not too outgoing”.
a serious lakewood bachur who would even consider marrying someone who wears pants, even if he originated from that world, isnt serious. a women wearing pants is totally unacceptable for a ben torah.
May be she will compromise by putting a skirt over her pants. Compromise works wonders in marriage
Rebbetzin,
Yes, basically we do not pasken straight out of a gemorrah, nir necessarily like a posek of years ago, but more like one in our generation- our contemporary. Not to mention, chassidim , yeshivish, Sefardim will not follow a uniform set of poskim necessarily. Years ago, an older Satmar chassid told my father about a certain ruling that the Satmar rebbe ordered. The rebbe was asked how he can go contrary to the Shulchan Aruch, which in effect he did. He responded , ” Yes, but we also have a mesorah.” The implication is clear.Mr. Rebbetzin: I challenge you to name one or two of the allegedly “many great bnei Torah (and even gedolim) of previous generations had wives that did not cover their hair.”
It simply doesn’t exist. You are stretching, by a long long shot, the definition of great Bnei Torah and Gedolim.
And you’d have a hard time finding anywhere where the husband and wife differ about an eiruv. If the husband’s shitta is that the eiruv is invalid, unkosher and Chillul Shabbos, the wife is prohibited from utilizing it. Period.
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