Secular Studies In Mesivta

HIE – sounds like you could use a trigonometry tutor. You’re obviously having trouble with it and it’s affecting your outlook.

In terms of time spent on secular studies, you can’t get by with a half hour for English, a half hour for math, etc. Building skills in English takes constant work over many years – especially the teen years. English is a difficult language. The grammar is weird, the vocabulary is very large (a dumping ground for Saxon, French, German, Latin and Greek) and the spelling is horrendous. I’ve seen people learning English as a second language literally burst into tears over its complexity. One of the many things I’m profoundly grateful for is that I was brought up in an English-speaking country and don’t have to learn it as an adult.

And don’t think, “Well, I’m American, so of course I know English.” If you go to yeshiva in the tri-state area you don’t speak English. You speak Yeshivish or Boro-Parkese. I’m bilingual in Boro-Parkese and American English, and believe me, I’m very careful which dialect I speak where. I could tell you some funny stories, but they’re too embarrassing 🙂

Math is easier to cram into a shorter period, but it still needs time.

If there were frum teachers around, I’d say hire them. However, we’re stuck with what we can get, which isn’t much because we don’t pay much or pay on time.

So how are mesivta students going to support their future families? Your guess is as good as mine.

“And don’t think, “Well, I’m American, so of course I know English.” If you go to yeshiva in the tri-state area you don’t speak English.” 100%!!

FWIW, there is no way I would support a daughter whose husband has a poor attitude about the secular studies she has taken seriously in order to work and support her husband’s learning. And I won’t stand for my granddaughter’s father dismissing as unimportant her studies, either.

Thank you. I just noticed that a couple of minutes ago. All his posts have been deleted, he has been blocked, and his account info was sent to his mother and his mashgiach.

Moderator,

What did I miss? Pacman is an inappropriate name?

btw, is that allowed, like, legally (sending his info to those people/how did you know who his mashgiach is?)?

Pacman alerted us to another user who was abusing the site. That is who I was talking about.

HIE, if you would slow down just a little bit so that your spelling and grammar were correct, we would all have an easier time reading what you have to say. Your writing really does leave much to be desired. It doesn’t take that long to put in apostrophes, differentiate between “then” and “than”, and spell “they’re” correctly instead of writing “their”. And those are just a few examples.

B’h I have a life and don’t have time to check ever little mistake. I type at the speed of 60 wpm and on my netbook I make many mistakes because it’s hard to type on it. Also, I’m very used to texting language, so i use that here too.

In other words, you believe that your time is more valuable than ours. You believe that the one or two seconds you are saving by not typing correctly is more valuable than the time we (your readers) have to take to “decode” what you’re writing.

But you know what? I have a life too. I work AND go to school. And I raise kids, and do lots of other things too. And yet, I find the time to use proper punctuation, correct spelling mistakes and make it easier for my audience to read what it is I have to say. In short, stop being self-centered.

The Wolf

HIE

Perhaps you can put aside your youthful arrogance and listen to the many (more experienced) people that have responded to your post. The fact that you can type 60 wpm means nothing if they are spelled wrong or placed in the wrong context.

You boast that compared to other schools you have a much better secular education. If that is the case, it is frightening to think how bad the other educations are and where that will lead them in life. Just remember that being the best of the worst is not necessarily a good thing.

Overall, I see your attitude as a reflection of two things:

1 – Todays society’s “on demand” attitude, or “I want to do what I want when I want”

2 – The attitudes adopted by yeshivos to belittle a proper secular education. This is especially damaging because the children’s negative view of secular studies (as evidenced by HIE) comes as a direct result of those attitudes. Why should students conduct themselves properly or value the education if they are told by the school that it is not important???

I personally feel that it is extremely important to have a proper education. How else can todays young people get a job or career in an increasingly competitive job market? Certainly not if you don’t know the difference between their and they’re. You may not think much about it now but when you I’YH get married and have children you will be thinking about these things. Like how to pay for yeshiva and bills and groceries etc. If our community produces only learners the entire system will fail because nobody would be able to pay for the school’s existence.

So, before you type another 60 hurried words as a response, maybe take that minute to absorb what has been said in this post and try to see that perspective. You may thank us in the long run

HIE,

habits are important, getting into the practice of good grammar is important, sooner or later you will be writing for something more important than an internet forum. It might be something for work or a job application, or even a chance to write a book.

I will tell you that after 15 years in computer programming the most important skill I have is being able to write well. (And if you go to amazon and type my name in you will see a book I wrote)

HIE: A lot of trig, especially on the high school level, can be broken down to sin() Cos(), and then just remember SoaCahToa.

Details to follow on request

;

“just remember SoaCahToa.”

Isn’t it SoHCaHToa?

But I was never good at math, so what do I know.

It’s quite interesting. All you people here think you know it all. You think you know exactly what’s going on in the yeshivos, although you haven’t been there in years. Very interesting to note!

It’s quite interesting. You seem to think you know it all. You think you know exactly which subject will and will not be useful in future life, even though you do not have any life experience beyond high school. You also seem to believe yourself to be an expert on educational curricula, even though you have absolutely no training in it whatsoever. Very interesting to note!

The Wolf

It’s also interesting to note that you think you know it all, having been in only one profession.

Wrong. I have done MANY things in my varied life.

I have spoke to many people in many different areas regarding this and therefore have come up with what I say.

As opposed to me who sits in a cave by myself and talks to no one??? I *do* have three kids in high school right now. I am pretty well versed with what goes on in high school and I have spoken with many other parents, teachers, principals and other people as well.

You come out of the blue, thinking you “KNOW IT ALL”. Very interesting to note!

On the contrary, YOU are the one who thinks they “KNOW IT ALL” while seeing things from only the student’s side. Grow up, become a parent of high schoolers, gain some life experience and then come back and let us know if you still feel the same way.

The Wolf

What I think is interesting is how you addressed this forum to seek opinions and then get upset with the opinions provided.

Secondly, there are at least a couple dozen people that seem to disagree with you. You wrote to WOLF that he is commenting based on a singular experience but the others are coming from a variety of experiences and they are saying the same thing. Doesn’t that make you stop and think for a second that there is something to it? Then again, what can we possibly know that you don’t?

@Wolf –

Dunno what the Wikipedia writer was on, er, referring to, but I have a Masters in psychology and am in the midst of the doctorate program and have yet to have had a use for any trig (which is good, because I didn’t know it in high school, and don’t know it now). Statistics yes, but not trig.

@Charlie –

I forgot the Rav you mentioned who earned a PhD in chemistry (I’m not going to go looking for it again), but I doubt he would say chemistry is an important topic for every single person to know.

@Midwest2 –

CHILL! If HIE wants to use texting language on this forum, what’s it to you? And you people say New Yorkers are uptight…This isn’t a medical journal, there’s no problem with using “cuz”.

HIE

how long you have been on “Yeshiva World” is irrelevant. I’m not sure why you brought that up.

What matters is the thoroughness of your life experience, of which you have none. It is not a personal attack; it’s just a fact that should be considered before you call into question the validity of Wolf’s statements.

wolf, i used to be torah tziva, and yros26 before that. yros26 was the first screen name i had, and if i recall, i registered with that screen name just a bit before you.

Post a link to the profile proving it. I searched for yros26 and got a “user not found” error.

Nonetheless, even if you’re right on this point, you’ve still proven yourself to be someone who does not know how to argue civilly, especially since this isn’t the first time you’ve called me a “little shnuk.” Apparently respect for one’s elders (even if you disagree with them), basic derech eretz and middos tovos aren’t taught in your yeshiva.

The Wolf

9th grade… in a local school I am happy for him that after a whole day of working hard in the morning he got to relax during English. I am sure he will pass the regents but just found it funny….

You are just assuming that trig is a hard subject that i’m not interested in learning, so i’m just saying it’s useless.

I made no such assumption. I accused you of ignorance and inexperience, not laziness. Please don’t accuse me of things that you don’t have proof of.

wolf, as i said earlier, you obviously don’t know what the current trigonometry course includes

So then educate me, please. You’ve stated numerous times that the content of the trigonometry course has changed since I took it. Very well, so please tell me what has changed. What is being taught now that was not taught when I took the course back in the late 1980s? And how is that additional content useless?

The Wolf