School problem 🏫☹️

Hire new teachers. There’s so many girls chalishing for a teacher’s job.

That’s awful.
Hopefully, they can raise money to pay their salaries and resume classes. (Am I right to assume that’s the issue?)

I believe R’ Moshe has a teshuvah about rebbeim striking, but the issues aren’t the same in a girls’ school.

The girls chalishing for a teacher’s job aren’t the ones qualified for the position. Ideally, a girls’ glass should be taught by a woman.

There’s a chiyuv for boys to learn Torah.

You can’t pay if you don’t have money.

Also, your comment is gender neutral.

It all comes along with the kollel mentality. People sit and learn and don’t make enough money to support their families, and we’re starting to see now the effect of that, that now schools don’t have enough money to pay Rebbeim (it should be noted that going into harbatzas Torah is considered differently than sitting and learning oneself), and then they shut down. Where is this really getting us, when our sons don’t have a school to go to because of our learning?

(I mean no disrespect to those sitting and learning, it’s a beautiful, and amazing thing that most people simply could not make the sacrifice to do, but I disagree with the practicality of it. It’s not a sustainable system; The Rambam said one should not be hitztarech al haBrios, and even Hillel HaZaken and the Chofetz Chaim in our times earned themselves a living.)

You wouldn’t agree that improper hashkafah is better than no hashkafah?

If one is teaching at yeshiva for boys and has not been paid or is paid a below-market salary, there is no chiuv for the rebbeim at that yeshiva to continue working without pay and forego taking another job through which they can feed their own families. That may mean a position in chinuch at another yeshiva or any other position that will provide the requisite compensation. Ifs up to the parents of the talmidim at that first yeshiva to assure that hey pay their tuition so that the teachers are paid on time or if not, to transfer their bochurim to another yeshiva. The obligation on chinuch and limud torah is on the parents; the teachers are not obligated to work without pay.

FuturePOTus you imply that the schools that don’t pay their teachers are the schools that the parents are learning in Kollel. To the best of my knowledge their are schools that most of the parents work and the schools still can not pay their teachers.

Future POTUS, unless I misunderstood, the implication of your post is that the difficulty some schools have in meeting payroll requirements is a result of the growing number of families where the father is “in learning.” The fact is that schools have had this problem since time immemorial, and in fact the problem is getting smaller, both in terms of Rebbeim’s salary, and in terms of Rebbeim actually getting paid. I am happy to note that the (out of town) school in which I am fortunate enough to be a Rebbe has not been late with a single paycheck in at least five years (although the salary is not quite up to par with in town schools).

Gadolhadorah, Rav Moshe Feinstein was asked this exact question. His ruling was that, in fact, a Rebbe is not precluded from taking a job somewhere else. However, as long as he is not employed elsewhere, he is required to teach even when not getting paid. This is because, since it is prohibited to get paid for teaching Torah, a Rebbe’s salary is classified as “Schar Batalah,” meaning he is getting paid not to take another job. Once otherwise unoccupied, the responsibility to teach devolves naturally upon him. Therefore, a Rebbe is free to take a job elsewhere, but he is not allowed to strike.

I heard a figure that to fully educate a child for the next generation it’s expected to cost $2,000,000 PER child!!!!

How do get to those numbers? (Sorry, but “I heard” isn’t a great source for something which doesn’t seem to make sense.)

Whether or not the school arranged to get the girls back to school does not change the fact that they owe teachers months of back pay. Having people work and not paying them is stealing.

You have to send them to the moon to learn astronomy.

One of the factors that impacts on the amount of money available to pay teachers is the ration of students per teacher. A larger class size can reduce the salary burden on the school, but at the expense of reduced individual attention to the students. It also presupposes that the classrooms are spacious enough to accommodate additional students.

Of course, while some students need less attention and direction than others, determining what’s best for a particular student ahead of time is a tough challenge for both educators and parents alike.

In addition to class size, consolidating the number of educational institutions competing for funds in the same community can also help (economies of scale), but that opens up a Pandora’s box of issues like different hashkafos and backgrounds and the location and size of school buildings.

Other possibilities include reaching out to the surrounding community for dependable volunteer labor, perhaps for cooking and serving meals, grounds-keeping, tutoring, chaperoning school trips, office work, etc.) not all that different from the way many synagogues survive.

Jogging my memory, I apologize, it could be that the figure mentioned was for a family of four. I retract the number, but you get the idea. We need a monetary system that works if we want our kids to be educated.

Hey what was wrong with my math?

What no one has mentioned is that the parents of these girls who have not been in school could be charged with ‘Education Neglect’ and have issues with Child Protective Services. These students not receiving an education should have been enrolled in another school. The government will say that if you can not find a private school that is acceptable you must enroll in public school or have an approved home schooling plan. Just to keep them home long term is NOT the answer.

” Rambam said one should not be hitztarech al haBrios, and even Hillel HaZaken and the Chofetz Chaim in our times earned themselves a living.”

We don’t posken according to the Rambam; we posken according to what the Gedolim of our times (who know how to learn and apply the Rishonim) say. Rav Moshe Feinstein zatsal has a teshuva in which he speaks out very harshly against people who don’t go to Kollel because they don’t want to take money from the tzibur.

Part of the problem could be inept administration and too trusting of claims of poverty. My father in law served on the tuition committee of a yeshiva decades ago. He was sickened by the stories he heard and the schemes. One couple came dresses in shmattas to prove they needed a reduction. When asked for their tax return they said their son’s elementary yeshiva never did. Turns out the return said they were making 6 figures and could afford full tuition. .

CT – 1. you know about these stories because you are a lawyer. That doesn’t mean that they happen very often relative to the numbers of kids who are out of school for a few days.
2. I also wonder how long the kids were out of school in your examples. It may have been more than a few days.
3. For the few parents in those situations (those that are divorced, AND the other parent is trying to get custody, AND the other parent is the type to go to a goyish court AND there is a real concern that he will be able to bring the courtcase before the strike is over), they can find another school meanwhile.
4. If anyone is really in that situation, they could have the same problem if the kids were sick or pretending to be sick and/or refusing to go to school for a few days, which is not uncommon in a divorce situation.

Maybe there are also other factors involved in some cases. Even though it may seem like someone is earning a lot of money, there could be exorbitant expenses that they can’t discuss. For example, maybe someone in the family has serious psychological problems which require expensive treatment or someone may be in some kind of expensive rehab, etc.

Lilmod………..
response to #1& #2
Please go back and read the original post, these girls have not been in school for weeks, not a few days
#3 Motions for changes in custody in Family Court can usually be heard the same day they are filed (Ex-Parte Motion) or next business day with both parties present. Because the scenario I laid out states the children have been out of school, no set date exists for their return and no alternate school has been chosen AND the father only seeks physical custody until the end of the school year, the motion will be viewed as an emergency and most Judges would hear it ex-parte without the mother having to be present. It would take almost no effort to have a case worker from DCF testify that the children are not receiving a proper education.
#4 is solved with a doctor’s note, AGAIN the OP states weeks, not a few days.

Remember, I don’t claim to be an expert on all types of law, and always preface my opinions that I practice here in Connecticut (but am also licensed in Massachusetts and Florida, BUT I have practiced Family Law (Marriage, divorce, adoption, custody, wills and trusts) for almost 40 years and have also taught these courses as an adjunct professor in law school.

The fact that a Frum couple doesn’t usually use the civil courts doesn’t mean that a social services agency might not get involved and do so.

I remember one time a school wanted copies of my bank statements. I refused.

I didn’t have a problem with giving them my tax returns and bank balances, but not the statements – there is too much personal information there. I don’t need them knowing which doctors I visit or other sensitive personal info that may be in there.

The Wolf

Yes, it was.

And, yes, I know you’re going to say that in such situations I have no rights and either accept it or refuse.

However, I still feel that even in some circumstances, there is a limit to what an institution should be allowed to ask for. I even asked them if I could block out the names of doctors, and was told no. Now, we’re talking about co-pays of $20 or $30 here, not extravagant amounts. Nonetheless, I was told no.

I’m sorry… even if you are providing charity to someone, you have no right to demand personal medical information.

The Wolf