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as my kids leave school singing
“kick the table, kick the chairs,
kick the staff down the stairs”my memory casts back to my own school years, and all in all my kids get away easy.
One random memory. I was swinging on my chair. After he told me a couple of times to stop, the teacher told me to take the chair to the back of the room, and take off my shoes and put them underneath. He then told me to return to my place and sit as if I had a chair. Try it, it’s very painful.
Imagine such a thing happening today ….
Halevai today’s teachers had the courage and smarts to do it. Yesterday’s generation didn’t come out as spoiled as today’s generation. We need to reintroduce traditional Yiddishe disciplinary measures instead of being afraid of what the Goyim will think.
Joe,
It’s more than what the goyim will think, it’s what the goyim will do (put the teacher in jail) if you’re not afraid of that then do something that will get yourself arrested, you’ll understand
In my more modern school they were trying to be more strict so they banned many kinds of pants expecting us to wear neat, clean, dark khakis with no outside pockets. In protest, on the first day of school a boy walked in wearing tight, black leather pants (the kind rock stars wear). After all, they weren’t specifically banned. We all had a good laugh.
Coffee addict, I work in a school. Speaking from experience, there’s very little fear of what non-Jews will think or do; after all, they’re not in school with us. There is, however, a very real fear on the part of the teachers as to what the students’ parents will think or say. Many times teachers will hesitate to punish children out of a reluctance to deal with angry parents. I have seen teachers write report cards that were more fiction than truth, rationalizing with, “can’t upset the parents”.
CA: New York State law permits private school teachers to use corporal punishment on their students.
Wow, I never knew that
Interesting
CA: 48 out of 50 states permit private school teachers to utilize corporal punishment. About 20 states permit corporal punishment in public schools, as well.
Yeah I saw that (the first part)
Why are schools different than parents?
Parents can use corporal punishment anywhere.
By extension, it used to be that teachers could use corporal punishment anywhere, in every US state. Including in every public school. But as the left encroached with their liberalism across the country, mainly starting in the 1960s and continuing ever since, they started banning them in schools in the more liberal states.
As far as parents, if the leftist could have their way, they’d take away such parental rights as well.
Ujm,
So Acs wouldn’t be called and kids taken away if a parent hits their kid in public?
Parents have the legal right to hit their children for disciplinary reasons. If it is excessive there can be issues.
My children are well past the school parsha, but I will tell you that if a teacher or school administrator had EVER laid a hand on any of my children, that teacher or administrator would have been nursing some black eyes and broken arms. I would not have regretted it, either.
takah: When you’re children reach your age they’ll be saying “I will tell you that if a teacher or school administrator had EVER given a mark less than an “A” to any of my children, that teacher or administrator would have felt my anger in a real way before the day was over.”
ujm: That would be hard to do, since their kids would be in school in E”Y, and there are no “A” grades here. Besides, I know my kids, and they’re not built that way.
Joseph,
If you had children they would currently say “my parent hits us for any reason and doesn’t think it’s ever excessive”.
Zushy: It’s indeed very painful, and that’s the purpose of the punishment. From my memories I remember the teacher laying down misbehaving children on his desk flat on their stomach, then smack their behinds with a wooden stick or ruler, it wouldn’t take few seconds until the child was bowling with tears. Believe me it was very painful and it worked. But indeed in my opinion I would better side with the latter punishment which is over fast, than a long during and perhaps a little dangerous punishment that you described, I think this kind of punishment and anything similair, like holding a bunch heavy books for a while, or holding the hands high up for a while should never be used in any case. A good portion of petsh can perhaps sometimes be healthy and benefiting.
We all know what Dovid HaMelech writes in Tanach about parents and rebbeim who don’t use a rod on their children.
“We need to reintroduce traditional Yiddishe disciplinary measures instead of being afraid of what the Goyim will think…”
Totally agree with R’ Yosef. In addition to assuring that a baas yisroel remains subordinate to her husband through appropriate means, we should restore the option of child abuse to our chinuch institutions to make sure our yinglach grow up to be equally abusive to the next generation.
Rabbi YY Jacobson chazzered a beautiful vort of the Belzer Rebbe:
A famous educator in Eretz Yisroel asked the Belzer Rebbe why the style of education changed in this generation, what was wrong with the simple פאטש from previous generations?
The Belzer Rebbe opened up a chumash, and showed him the possuk (במדבר יב יד):
“ואביה ירוק ירק – her father SPITS at her”In Targum, which was written a thousand years later, it says:
“אלו אבוהה מנזף נזיף בה – if her father would CHASTISE her”In Rashi, which was written a thousand years later, it says:
“אם אביה הראה לה פנים זועפות – if her father SHOWED AN ANGRY FACE to her”Nowadays, a thousand years later, concluded the Belzer Rebbe, we must even be careful with our facial expressions when dealing with children.
@Always, talking about Shlomo Hamelech and educating one’s son with the rod, let’s not forget what Shlomo’s son Rechavam said about the rod:
“אבי יסר אתכם בשוטים ואני איסר אתכם בעקרבים”
If you have any memory of what you learned in school, you remember how well that worked out.
Balance is always important.[I just noticed that the source is: מלכים יב יד.
Ironically, the source for ירק ירק is: במדבר יב יד]You get more with honey than vinegar.
my school memoeies is getting ibbergerliked
@john the pronunciation depends on where the yeshiva is located.
PS it was very common in the chedorim in my childhoodZushy if you never had it, no need to know
iberleigen means laying down a child on his stomach over an adult’s lap or on a flat surface like a table, couch, bed, etc., and then smacking his bottom (tuches) with the hand, ruler, strap, etc.
Menachem, I had nothing to do with this but it is indeed ironic that Shlomo was not able to apply his approach to his own son… I wonder if there are any perushim on this
@John, I remember twigs being used in camp, if you saw someone standing during lunch you knew he got ibbergerliked during learning groups
I know the two or three of you have an obsession with this topic but I think it’s just about been exhausted now.
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