- This topic has 334 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 5 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
#2 is what the people of East Ramapo want to happen and think thats what will happen
They dont seem to realize it will come at a cost, It might even come at a cost of a combination of #1 and #2. Like they have to raise taxes $1 for every $1 in government aid. It might come at the cost of loss of control of school board (I think this happend in Roosevelt) . And like I said , If East Ramapo gets a bailout , others will want one too costing the state more money so its not as easy as they want. Its very unlikely due to politics of the entire state that #2 will occur unconditionally
The Republicans are likely to retain Skeolos’ vacated Long Island seat. But in any event the outcome of that special election doesn’t change control of the State Senate either way as Simcha Felder and the five member Independent Caucus are allied with the Republican majority.
There is an option that is obvious that perhaps someone can explain why it hasn’t been mentioned.
Is the two mile requirement for mandatory bussing written in stone? If the minimum distance for mandatory bussing is reduced to, say, half a mile, then funding becomes mandatory ( it’s hard to argue that a child needs to be bussed less than a half a mile )
The Republicans are likely to retain Skeolos’ vacated Long Island seat.
Curious why you say that. The Democrats are running the Assembly person for that district, while the Republicans are running an unknown. On what are you basing your assumptions?
It’s a strongly Republican district.
Abba,how does Cutting ( reducing expenses bussing increase the deficit? How, specifically, did the monitor increase the deficit?
Joe – so why is the assembly person a Democrat?
I’m not sure how much overlap there is between the Assembly district and the Senate district, but they aren’t the same.
As long as there is no school monitor with veto power over the board, the board can cut public school services to balance the budget
There are things they can cut and things they cant cut. If something is madated by the state like Math, Science, English , GYM (Yes Gym is madated)
They can cut things like band , and intermural sports which are not mandated.
What some here dont seem to get is free public school education is not only the laws in the US , it is the custom as well. You cannot eliminate it or make it barebones because you dont use it. Eldery and childless people are required to pay taxes for it even though they dont have kids
There are, if i am not mistaken, 63 seats in the ny state senate and 150 in the assembly. it is possible to have a heavily democratic assembly district in an overall republican senate district.
I’m not sure how much overlap there is between the Assembly district and the Senate district, but they aren’t the same.
There are, if i am not mistaken, 63 seats in the ny state senate and 150 in the assembly. it is possible to have a heavily democratic assembly district in an overall republican senate district.
Makes sense. Thanks for the help, and let’s see what happens.
What someone seemingly does not get, is that there are services that are mandated even for children of non-public schools, and those cannot be cut.
Even if there are those who want to do so because the students benefitting are Orthodox Jews.
Mandated is mandated, regardless which service it is.
“There are basically only 4 real exit strategies”
And yet you missed the most logical one and the one that is being advocated for by reasonable people: To correct the funding formula so that the proper state aid is provided to the districts.
Correct state aid is not a “bail out”.
“They dont seem to realize it will come at a cost, “
The costs are already there and there are those who are trying to push unnecessary and costly oversight (See Mr. Azzara’s contract, and that is in spite of his apparent colossal failure) and the costs associated with that without even providing the correct state funding.
You can argue with me all you want, but they are not giving you the money for free. There will be a cost. The cost could be loss of board control, It could be a required tax increase for increase in state Aid. It could be mandatory cuts in some of the private school aid. But it will be something and it will be tough love.
You dont seem to understand the use of the word cost here. The word cost here is not nessasirly about money, its about what they will expect in return in order to give the money.
It doesnt matter what you think of me, that is the politics of the state. It very well might be some elected officials care about the voting bloc, but others do not . And there are others who would agree to it, if they get a piece of the pie turning off those who might agree to it.
“Cut most private school spending, Public vs Private school spending is not equal in the public eyes.”
But in the eyes of the law, there is no difference in mandated services, they are required for all students. (And if the majority in ERCSD are non-public, and they feel that public school education is not necessary at all, following your “logic” it could be entirely eliminated)
“People on the greater level do not equate money spent for private schools vs money spend for public schools”
Here you are stating straight out that you believe that the Orthodox (and for that matter, the families that send to catholic schools and other parochial schools as well)are on a lower level. Which I agree is the arrogant attitude of most of the so called “activists” against the ERCSD board.
“the culture of the society.”
So much for a “dina dmalchusa dina” radical. Only when it suits you.
” People feel private schools are a choice and there is no reason for taxpayers (On the state level) to pay for it “
The school is a choice, but that does not mean that the mandated services are not for those students as well. Remember, it is not education costs that are being paid for with state money (and do not make the silly mistake of yelling ‘special ed’. The law recognizes this and therefore these are MANDATED.
You will notice that these services were NEVER found to be in violation of separation clause, because they are clearly not services to the schools, rather they are services to the students, who are all entitled to such services paid for from taxes.
Special ed is mandated, however sending the special ed kids to schools in Kiryat Joel is NOT which costs more money rather than educatating them in Monsey
The monitor will find these things and make them keep them in Monsey at a lower cost (These costs have been documented). You take the money they will do these things. There might also be places that bill the district at a higher than customary costs and the monitor will eliminate those too.
There is alot of fat in mandated services and they will be eliminated before the money is given.
What is mandated is the most appropriate education.
There are many frum children in the ERCSD public schools. However, when the ERCSD schools cannot provide the appropriate level of service, then the children are placed elsewhere, some in KJ, but not by any means most.
You are just quoting the anti Semitic “activists” who keep saying that, but it is not a significant amount of the total costs.
It is ironic that you are insisting that others do not understand when you are so clearly completely way off base.
I dont live in Rockland county or Lakewood and do t really understand all the issues in either situation. One thing seems clear though. They don’t belong in the same discussion. The situations based on how they are portrayed here are very different from each other.
Abba
At least you admitted the political calculus involved here. Which is why I dont think the money is coming any time soon and the district will have to solve the problem on its own.
If Lakewood gets more state aid, then other districts will also want state aid and thats what some dont seem to get. Lakewood will want and get, then Camdem, Newark, Trenton and other districts will also want as well. So for every dollar Lakewood gets, NJ would have to pay out $5 or more.
And dont say only Lakewood should get, thats not how politics works. The aid will have to be voted on in the state legislature and to get some votes they will have give them too and there are members of the legislature who will not vote for any state aid strictly on principle no matter who asks
ZD: Your record player is broken. No one is asking for more aid, per se. What is being asked for is to change the formula to count all school children in town.
You want the laws changed to basically serve one district. We do not live in a dictatorship, the legislator branch needs to change these laws on a consensus vote. Other legislators who live in other districts will want something for their vote. They are not giving you their vote for nothing.
What are you going to offer a legislator from Utica, NY for his vote on changing the distribution formula for East Ramapo? What are you going to offer a Legislator from Jersey City in order to support changing the formula for Lakewood?
And before you say how important the Jewish Vote is, there are other consitutancies who are also important and want a different result. The leaders take these things into account. The latino vote is large too and the elected officials want their vote too. This is how it works in our governmental system
And no they dont care about Lakewood or East Ramapo, they answer to their own consituants not yours
You don’t get it, do you. The extra money is for the Latinos in the public schools in East Ramapo and Lakewood, not for the Jewish children. No extra money, and non-mandatory kindergarten is cancelled. Instead of local Latinos getting half a day kindergarten they get no public school kindergarten since kindergarten is non-mandatory. The Latino kindergarteners will have to stay home with a hired babysitter or the parent taking off from work. Sports, extracurricular activities and other non-mandated public school programs Latinos are using go bye-bye. Public school roofs leaking? Sorry, no money to fix them. Public school class sizes going from 30 to 50 kids per class? Sorry, no money for smaller classes. Courtesy busing is a tiny percentage of the school budget and even cancelling it will not provide enough savings to cover the humongous deficit in the school budget. Private school children being bused going from 25,000 to 35,000 mandatory busing? Hiring new buses since it is mandated by State law to get them to school. Guess that means some more cuts in non-mandatory public school programs.
Maybe what’ll happen is the public school parents will get so frustrated that they’ll move out of town (i.e. rent basements in other towns) and the public school student body will go down to a small number and the local BOE will save hundreds of millions from having less public school kids.
Maybe what’ll happen is the public school parents will get so frustrated that they’ll move out of town (i.e. rent basements in other towns) and the public school student body will go down to a small number and the local BOE will save hundreds of millions from having less public school kids.
This is what many are hoping for. thanks for posting it
And you are correct, its Not fair that parents of Private school have to pay while parents of Public school do not, but that is the law
You’re welcome.
It’s also the law that private school children get school books and transportation paid with public finances.
ZD: You seem to have zero faith in Democracy and fairness. I’ll address fairness first.
The dollar amount given by the state is based mainly on the number of public school kids. It’s a no brainer that the state should take into consideration the number of private school kids when calculating funding. Unlike what you are trying to portray, kids going to private school are actually saving money for the state and township — they’re not the ones draining the pot, except that the pot is too small to begin with.
Now back to politics: Hopefully some Legislators can simply be swayed by the fairness argument, while other probably rich districts will also gain by including all kids in the calculations for a fair funding formula. (Unless there’s some income test built into the law.)
Now “pork” is definitely built into many laws, but it’s not always the case (not everybody is corrupt) many vote according to party lines, and it doesn’t have to be wrapped into that same law. Politicians can be very patient, favors and promises are exchanged — so yes one hand washes the other — but it’s not so transparent or immediate. According to your logic virtually no laws can be passed, no bridges can be built etc., as there are always those that benefit less than others who will stop everything in its track. (This frozen state is more applicable to the federal government nowadays.)
mamale
You are correct that private school kids save the district money, however the issue with East Ramapo is Special Ed and regular parents with special ed kids just send them to public school which can educate them cheaper than private schools. In East Ramapo parents dont want their kids in the public school (Except Kiryat Joel) so the district sends them to more expensive private schools in essense cancelling out the savings as special ed costs an insane amount of money.
Private schools are a hot potato for both parties, the dems because of the teachers unions and many minories who are the base of the party. The GOP generally favors smaller government and lower taxes and therefore would not be open to give them money
When the marriage law was changed in NY to allow “other” types of marriages. Why do you think the Agudah and others did not fight hard to stop it? They accepted their own “PorK’ and were told if you oppose the changing of the marriage law, you will lose your “Pork” and they had to back down, yes they opposed, but they didnt oppose as loud as they could have
The GOP supports private school vouchers.
The private school community saves the district hundreds of millions of dollars more per year, from not sending tens of thousands of children to public school every year, than they cost them in the difference in cost between public and private special ed for a hundred children or so.
And the Agudah openly opposed that marriage law/ruling. They couldn’t stop it regardless of what they did.
“however the issue with East Ramapo is Special Ed”
If you really want to define the real problem the so called activists have, it is that Orthodox jews are benefitting.
Read the comments and posts. The demand that there be no busing at all. They want no services at all and they do not want the special needs children to receive any services. Not in the public schools and not at other providers.
The total amount that is paid to KJ is not that great a number. And what is paid to Ohr Vodass is less than what it costs to provide services in the public schools itself.
All the Board need is a normalization of the formula to capture all students for whom there are mandated services (and it can be weighted by the type of mandated services)
The only reason to deny such a correction to the formula would purely be based on bias, because logically (a foreign concept in government and elsewhere as well) there is something missing from the formula.
Vouchers are illegal in NY because of Blaine amendments in the NY constitution, They wanted to repeal this law and they found it was almost impossible so that the GOP is for vouchers in NY is pointless.
I said the agudah was against the marriage ruling, but they did not oppose it like they should have, they even met with Christine Quinn on several occasions.
Do you remember what you said from one comment to the next? You said the GOP would not be in favor of supporting private schools. I told you you’re wrong by pointing out that Republicans generally favor school vouchers (nationally – not just in NY) for private schools. Now you’re hocking ah chinik that vouchers are not legal in New York.
The Agudah opposed the ruling like they should have.
I said the agudah was against the marriage ruling,
They are. They are just more for school funding than they are against SSM. In all fairness, so was BMG when they endorsed Corzine over Christie.
The Lakewood Scoop is reporting today that New Jersey has surrendered and the State has agreed to continue courtesy busing. The cancellation had been cancelled.
The NJ monitor has agreed yesterday that courtesy busing will continue. The APP is now reporting it as well.
Abba, you never responded to my question. Were there deficits prior to the monitors being appointed in either district?
With regard to the 5 Towns,why is politics the assumed for a lack of a monitor? Perhaps it’s because there is no deficit, and, after initial fears when the Orthodox took control, the public school parents for the most are satisfied that their children’s interests are being served. None of the local papers have reported any negative news in a long time
Abba, still no answer and you act like nothing matters but bussing
LC
In the 5 towns, the people have more money and belived more in civic responsibility to the public school system. So they agreed to pay the money needed. That is why there was no issue there
In the 5 towns there are many fewer minorities.
ZD, you really have a very jaundiced way of looking at Jews. For shame. It’s clear you are not makpid on bein odom lchaveiroh.
With statements like that I’m not sure you are in the position to make such a call
I am sure it’s not a contradiction.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.