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I just had PTA last night and it seems like one of my kids is going to need special ed because her reading level is so low but her comprehension is KA”H high. I’m wondering if it’s worth it to fill out a ream of paperwork and bring all sorts of proofs of identity and residency and have her dentist sign a form (Yes, you read that right: dentist) and THEN she’d get evaluated and MAYBE she’d qualify for help…
…and the public school activists seem to want to take away private school special ed funding if they can.
Abba, isn’t the district paying the parents who they didn’t get busing for to get their own transportation?
Alot of things the frum community is getting people think is mandated. Its not mandated to get busing if you live 1 mile from the School and its not mandated to send the special ed kids to a Public school in Kiryat Joel.
If the state comes in these things will be cut.
Also School Taxes are not State Taxes, they are local taxes
Abba, what’s the story for next year? Even if courtesy bussing is cancelled from February through June, will the monitor permit courtesy bussing again next September if the yeshivos agree to continue to stagger their starting times? Will the yeshivos agree to that?
If courtesy bussing is cancelled in February will the monitor also force coed bussing from mixed schools in February as well? If so, what will the parents/yeshivos do if the courts don’t stop the change?
Abba_S: Keep us posted on today’s referendum results.
Abba, why would you expect there to be news coverage of a school district vote? Outside of Lakewood noonr cares. Despite your obsession, courtesy bussing is simply not a major issue. In addition, how is courtesy bussing in East Ramapo a pressing, burning Jewish issue?
Oh please. How are they denying based upon religion? Please get off your soapbox. There is ample precedent for oversight when an select D entty is perceived to be fiscally irresponsible. Financial control boards (FCB ) had veto power on the budgets for both NYC and the city of Yonkers were nearly insolvent. Nassau Country is currently subject to a FCB. The school boards of both Roosevelt and Hempstead were taken over by the State unelected judges at both the federal and state level overturn laws .So much for one man one vote. Your sole concern is courtesy bussing so that your kid doesn’t have to walk a couple of blocks, and you don’t care if programs for the district’s kids have to be cut to pay for it
Your sole concern is courtesy bussing so that your kid doesn’t have to walk a couple of blocks, and you don’t care if programs for the district’s kids have to be cut to pay for it
And would rather public school programs be cut because it only affects “????????”, even if it hurts yourselves by cutting busing.
Unfortunately, Lakewood B’shittah (and they hold it is a good thing) is so closely tied to government funding (and not local that would cost them in taxes), the results of the Referendum are expected. Just don’t hold your breath for the state to bail you out when they have Camden, Atlantic City and Newark to deal with first (unless HaGaon Rosh Yeshiva BMG Aaron Kotler can pull a rabbit out of his black hat. He has done it before).
gavra: If the State doesn’t give the town additional education funds, it will inevitably force further cuts in non-mandatory public school programs and courses. Even if you cut all non-mandatory courtesy busing, there is still a major ongoing annual deficit in the school budget. And legally taxes cannot be raised without local voter consent, which as you see isn’t happening. So the only possibility left is to cut all non-mandatory services, most of which (by far) comes from public school children.
Joseph – exactly. So there will be cuts to public schools, and no busing.
People here think there is nothing to cut , They can cut sending Jewish kids to Kiyrat Joel school district and educate them in East Ramapo for cheaper, there is no mandate to send them to Kiryat Joel
Joseph, you act like it is something that has never happened elsewhere. It’s called an austerity budget. It’s when a district ( in NY ) votes down a budget two times. Gavra is correct. Camden is bankrupt and Atlantic City is headed that way. Gov Christie vetoed an aid package for Atlantic City. Lakewood’s district will simply have to make do
LC: You missed my point (I think). The public school children will be losing a lot more services than the private school children will be losing due to the inevitable austerity budget.
Abba, please stop being condescending to the immigrant population. The Lakewood district will have to deal with the reality of living within their current budget. It is their issue, not yours..
Joseph, I think I got your point. I’m not saying your wrong but they will not be the first district to live under an austerity budget. The issue isn’t religion, it’s money. Either live within your means or raise taxes. Just don’t look for a state bailout to pay for courtesy bussing
When the public schools lose art, gym, culture and other non-mandatory courses, and are left with a bare-bones curriculum, the State might elect to provide additional funding.
Art, Music and Gym are mandatory in NY
Band and Sports teams are not
Lakewood is in New Jersey.
Joseph, there is additional funding available, it’s called taxes. If the governor just refused to bail out Atlantic City, what makes you think he’ll bail out Lakewood?
i dont know lakewood for sure as I live in NY, but I am fairly certain GYM is required in NJ as well. I dont know about Art and Music, but these things are usually required in most places
LC: And if the local electorate, in our democracy, vote no to taxes, then the law is quite clear that local taxes don’t get raised.
BTW, no one is forcing Atlantic City to raise local taxes.
It was the equivalent of a State Monitor (called an emergency manager) who poisoned the children of Flint Michigan. The entire idea is undemocratic and in Flint it proved tragic. If the school system is not fiscally viable, merge it with neighboring districts.
“In the 1870 south there were many Blacks in elected office by the 1900 there was none. Why because the blacks were intimidated from voting.”
Actually the last African American Congressman from the South until 1972 was George Henry White of North Carolina, who left office in 1901. And it wasn’t just intimidation, it was legal barriers to voting that the white racists enacted in order to suppress voter turnout among the “wrong” groups. Back then the people doing that were Democrats but today they are Republicans, as they know that they cannot win without doing so.
And it isn’t just blacks who are targeted. Some communities in upstate NY have been targeting Jews. 🙁
Nobody is going to want to merge with a school district that wants courtesy busing to private schools and thinks that Football ,Band and AP courses are unnessary extra things and should be cut to give busing to private schools. .
Joseph, in his veto message, Christie raised thatvery issue. He said to simply give money without AC changing how it does business ( spending, taxation ) would accomplish nothing.
Abba, if the Jewish community of East Ramapo wants to preserve their services, vote to increase taxes it’s that simple. All you’re doing is trying to get others to pay to solve your problem. Since you keep raising the one man one vote issue, why should taxpayers who don’t live or vote there have to pay
ZD: Busing for private schools is not a courtesy; it is mandatory by law.
And courtesy busing is provided equally to both public and private schools. And public school students use courtesy busing at a much higher percentage than private school students. (In Lakewood almost half the public school kids use courtesy busing, while less than a quarter of yeshiva kids use courtesy busing.) Cutting courtesy busing will proportionally hurt public school students much more than the loss will hurt private school students. Especially in towns where it is dangerous for little school children to walk to school, due to the heavy local traffic, even if it is “only” a 2 mile walk.
And the typical public school student doesn’t have an available parent to take him to school, and pick him up, every day. The yeshiva students are much more likely to have that.
LC: The tax shortfall to cover the school budget is much much greater than the cost of courtesy busing for private school students. Most of any tax increase will cover public schooling, not courtesy busing.
It would, from an economic standpoint of the private school voter base, be more cost effective for the voters to vote down all future school tax increases, even if that means forfeiting courtesy busing, and simply have the parents privately pay for the busing of the students too close to school to qualify for mandatory busing. This will cost them less than the needed tax increase to cover the annual school budget shortfalls. Of course exercising this option will mean the public schools will fail since they will not have enough funding to cover their school budget, unless the State fixes the formula to provide State school funding.
“And the typical public school student doesn’t have an available parent to take him to school, and pick him up, every day.”
I wish that was true. Maybe where you live all there is no one who stays home all day watching the shtus box and collecting unemployment.
In East Ramapo they give busing to more than the minimim required by law. Also there is no law that required seperate busing
Also there is no law that required seperate busing
Is there a law requiring that the kids be bussed to the school they are attending?
You can combine bus routes so if a family has twins a boy and a girl (Or more likely children a year apart), but they go to seperate schools, the school bus can pick them both up and drop each off at their respective schools, this is more efficient and money saving.
Why would that be more efficient than only making one dropoff?
You can combine bus routes so if a family has twins a boy and a girl (Or more likely children a year apart), but they go to seperate schools, the school bus can pick them both up and drop each off at their respective schools, this is more efficient and money saving.
Not happening, and you know it. Even if it was offered, private school parents in Lakewood Ir HaKodesh would not send their children on such buses.
More likely to save money (from what I read) is the removal of Helen Tobia, and the monitor banning any outside placement for special education services, especially if the parents are represented by Michael Inzelbuch (whom the district should ban from any cases due to conflict of interest). Something like a moratorium on any placements until they can settle things and do some forensic accounting on the schools who accepted outside placements to see if any illegality occurred.
I imagine that will save a signifigant amount of money for the district. :p
End story, the district will run out of money and the state will not offer any.
“You can combine bus routes so if a family has twins a boy and a girl (Or more likely children a year apart), but they go to seperate schools, the school bus can pick them both up and drop each off at their respective schools, this is more efficient and money saving. “
This is a claim that is completely without merit. It would only make sense if the two schools are nearby and have laddered start times.
However it makes no sense to have a bus route that has many pick ups as well as many different drop offs. That will not work, nor be more efficient or time saving.
Further, you assume that the busses are running half empty, which does not seem to be the case.
ZD: What you suggest is narishkeit and impractical. It would cost the Board of Ed much more to have the same bus route drop off children at multiple different schools. Furthermore, the boys and girls schools have different hours. The boys come earlier for shachris and leave later. And if there are some boys and girls schools that have the same hours, if the Board tried mixing the boys and girls schools will change their hours to make it impossible to mix the students.
gavra: If the district runs out of money, and the State offers none, it will be the black and hispanic public school parents running to the State begging for money to restore all the gutted non-mandatory classes, leaving the public schools with a skeleton curriculum of mandatory-only courses and hours.
gavra: If the district runs out of money, and the State offers none, it will be the black and hispanic public school parents running to the State begging for money to restore all the gutted non-mandatory classes, leaving the public schools with a skeleton curriculum of mandatory-only courses and hours.
The state could (I don’t know what they will do) then place those children (who want public school) in outside districts and pay those districts directly, subtracting that amount from any funds the state normally pays to the district itself. Certainly reasonable if the number of public school children within the district drops (which has to be expected).
Or HaGaon Rosh Yeshiva BMG Aaron Kotler can pull a rabbit out of his black hat. He has done it in the past. Perhaps they will call it “E-Rate” 🙂
The state could (I don’t know what they will do) then place those children (who want public school) in outside districts and pay those districts directly, subtracting that amount from any funds the state normally pays to the district itself. Certainly reasonable if the number of public school children within the district drops (which has to be expected).
I don’t know if you’re correct that they could do that, but assuming they can and did, are you suggesting they will place the entire public student body of Lakewood (or East Ramapo) in outside school districts, thus leaving the town with no more public school? I don’t know that would even be logistically practical to do, but even if it were – and were done – at that point the town no longer has any public schools so they can lower taxes to cover only special ed and busing and everyone lives happily ever after. 🙂
OTOH, what you suggest will cost the State far more since the State will have to pay the full cost of placing the students in out-of-district schools while the State currently does not pay the full cost to cover the public school students in school. (Local taxes cover most.)
Joseph – Exactly. Then again, I don’t know the exact numbers of public to private spending in Lakewood. IIRC I saw something in East Ramapo that has them at a 60/40 split (public vs. transportation & special ed.).
This would only happen if the district already has 40 child classes in public schools. At that point, I imagine a majority of funds are going to private school children already.
Not happening, and you know it. Even if it was offered, private school parents in Lakewood Ir HaKodesh would not send their children on such buses.
Of course not, but its not MANDATORY to pay for seperate buses, We are talking about what is mandatory and everything else needs to be cut
It seems some want everything they want and want the state to pay for the public school kids which isnt going to happen so there will be cuts from the private school kids
It is more cost effective for the board to have separate buses for separate schools. And since boys and girls go to separate schools, it’s cheaper to bus them separately. Especially considering they have different hours. So it will cost the district more to combine the schools especially after the boys schools make sure their hours don’t align with the girls schools.
” IIRC I saw something in East Ramapo that has them at a 60/40 split (public vs. transportation & special ed.).”
1) The split is nowhere near that unless you include BOCES (which is almost purely public school) And that is including 100% of transportation and special Ed as private, which is not even nearly the case.
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