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All I know is that whenever I was greeted with a “gut shabbos” from a guy who was either an older teen or 20’s, it wasn’t coming from just… ahavas yisroel. Let’s put it that way.
But if you’re not referring to people close in age like that, It should be fine.
But either way, don’t ignore! You don’t have to say Gut Shabbos to everyone, but if someone greeted you, you should greet them back. THAT’s where politeness comes in.
WIY, maybe they think you’re OTD because you wear a bend down and no beard so they were answering politely to be mekarev you. ^_^
It’s all relative. Here in the 5 Towns “good shabbos or Shabbat shalom” is expressed reflexively, whereas in other communities it can result in ex communication.
Wasn’t it Rabbi Akiva who said one should be the first to greet everyone. (not sure if it was him or not but some huge Gadol said it). Doesnt that mean we should say good shabbos/good morning to everyone since Rabbi Akiva said one should be the first one to greet everyone. Do you think he meant to only greet someone first if they are of the same gender and Jewish?? He meant everyone because in his day our religion wasn’t as judgmental. People actually loved their neighbor like themselves.
T613 – what about if you just smile and nod your head. Would that be a happy medium?
kfb:
Actually, he meant the same gender, regardless if Jewish. If I remember correctly, afilu nachri bshuk, even a non-Jew in the street. It does not say the same about a woman. Please read my earlier posts. I’d not like to get into arguments. (It bode me no good previously). I will ??”? not be drawn into machlokes, argument, bickering etc. It’s not what I’m here for.
Regarding your statement about our religion now being “judgmental”, kindly remember the sheer hatred Rabbi Akiva had, when yet unlearned, towards Talmidei Chachamim. Do you begin to fathom the Kedushah that permeated our nation then? How every single issue was weighed and analyzed from all angles before taking action. Our code of laws nowadays is but an echo of the laws and customs followed in the era of the the Tanaaim, Bais Hamikdash.
They sure were ohev as habrios umkarvon ltorah (take a peek at Avos), but it definitely was not a free-for-all, anything-goes, friendship, brotherhood society. No. Not at all.
It says to be first to give Shalom. Since we don’t expect someone from the other side of the Mechitza to give you Shalom, as it says Ein Sho’alin Bishlom…, there is no issue of being first.
Torah
Its not a lack of Tznius if a girl says gut shabbos to the guy unless it is obvious that she has ulterior motives.
Zeeskite, I need you to show me proof that Rabbi Akiva was talking about saying hi to the same gender only. Please show me something that says so.
mitzvah min hamuvchar to davka greet the opposite gender, enter into a philosophical discussion with him/her, share a great dvar torah, and invite them over somethime.
I noticed that everyone is ignoring zeeskite’s mention of Shlomis bas Divri, so I figured I’d mention it again.
Shlomis bas Divri.
yes! I think its a beautiful thing to do and a kiddush hashem!
“Shlomis bas Divri.”
I was taught it was Beruriah, wife of Rabbi Meir.
Shlomis Bas Divri is the one who is criticized for greeting men. Bruria is the one who told a Tana off for not speaking in shorter sentences.
The Gemara in Keddushin also says that EIn Sho’alim Bishlom Isha, you don’t send regards even through her husband. (Technically, you might be able to differentiate between regards and asking how are you, and merely saying Good Shabbos especially where it would be an accepted social norm.)
It’s nice to be nice. In my community, everyone greets each other (maybe cus we all know each other). There’s never a problem of girls greeting bachurim, cus they’re always on opposite sides of the street. (We’re super-tznius here.)
I also experimented saying Good Shabbos in other cities – I felt so happy when there were actually one or two people who answered me!
Good Shabbos, everyone! (It’s actually Sunday – don’t judge me)
I dare you to answer.
out of town: say good shabbos
anywhere in Brooklyn: don’t say good shabbos (you won’t get a shidduch; in brooklyn you can only talk to the opposite gender if nobody is watching
5 towns: say good shabbos
Queens: say Good shabbos
everywhere else: say good shabbos
say good shabbos everywhere except for Brooklyn (#FlatbushFakers)
No, what you should do is carry a sign that says “Good shabbos” on it. Then it’s clear that you’re saying good shabbos to the world, not flirting.
#outoftowncomplex
I have two stories to share. One happened with a couples of out-of-town girls who were in Brooklyn for Shabbos. Passing a couple of Yeshivah Bachurim, one called out, “Good Shabbos!” When she received no response, she called out in a louder voice, “Good Shabbos!!” When there was still no response forthcoming, she called out (now even farther away), “I’M SORRY! I THOUGHT YOU WERE JEWISH!” Note that there was no sarcasm involved.
The second was related to me by an acquaintance of mine. He and his wife have lived in Rechavia for decades. When they first got there, his wife complained to him about the unfriendly feeling that she had there. “With the exception of one old man who always wishes me “Good morning”, everybody just ignores me!” A few days later, she said to her husband, “There’s the man who always greets me!” It was Harav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach ZTZ”L.
when this symbol # is used on YWN is it called a kugeltag?
rebyid, the problem with your solution is that in Flatbush where you have to use a sign as opposed to saying “Good Shabbos” those people don’t carry so you’ll be ostracized for carrying in Flatbush anyway. In Boro Park at least, many people do hold of the eruv. I grew up in BP and did say Good Shabbos and still got married. BTW, there are more people like me in Brooklyn than you think.
;
if you are of age 16 up you shouldnt say gut shabbos to someone of the opposite gender until you are married
I don’t know whats wrong with you people. I say Good Morning to people in the morning on the street whether I know them or not (no matter what gender), and I Gut Shabbos to people (no matter what gender). Yes, I live in Flatbush!
@goq +1
lol ty cb glad someone got it.
The Gemara Kesuvos already gave the answer to all such moral dilemmas:–
???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ??. V’dok. (??? ????? from R’ Shlomo Zalman zt”l before!)
Which means: The Gemara brings a story about R’ Acha who used to pick up Kallas and dance with her on his shoulders [which is obviously pritzus in our circles]. The Rabbanan asked him if they could do the same, to which he answered “If she is compared to you like a plank of wood , then go ahead. If not, then don’t!”
The same pretty much sums up all such dilemmas. If you feel, unlike most normal adolescent males, that your casual contact with women does not cause impure thoughts, then it is the most decent thing to do to greet (unless of course SHE will feel uncomfortable, which is sort of counterproductive). However, the rest of us humans should not.
(Dunno if I am generalizing too much or if its just me being honest!)
ok i hope this is worth it. es chatzaai ani mazkir hayom. when i was younger me and the boys went for shabbos walks and ya wed love to bump into girls and say good shabbos. lame but true. the ones that were makdim shalom were obviously looking for trouble.
lmayseh whats pshat so many chassidim (male) dont say (or respond) good shabbos? kalteh chassidim nowadays
btw its PASSERSBY
Epis: I wrote it once, I’ll write it once again. Shlomis bas Divrie also did it. She greeted people of both genders at all occasions, as Chazal tell us. “Shalom alach, Shalom alach”. Much to her undoing. She too did not see anything wrong – being friendly, cordial, social, “proper etiquette”, “gemutlach”. That was her inner flaw that brought her to no good…. Chazal suggest otherwise.
We follow Chazal who tell us not to, ??? ?????? ????? ???, and many other sayings.. ????? ???? ?”?…
So in a place where it’s the norm, it’s not flirting (I’d maybe think there can be a difference between a woman engaging and a man – maybe a woman engaging is too pritzus – like Shlomis did, again, just maybe), otherwise it should not be done.
I wasn’t exactly serious. I meant it as an extremist solution.
think about it…. whoever started this “wishing good Shabbos” its just so nice that Jewish people from all over the world greet each other like this
Little Froggie, So your telling me what I do is pretzus? (BTW I am a male)
rav avigdor miller zt”l said boys shouldn’t need to look or talk to a girl ever! (unless immediate family or obviously your spouse)
Epis, ask your local Halachiknician, Madrich, qualified Rav, Dayan, Rosh Yeshiva, Rebbe, Mashgiach. Contrary to popular belief, I have NO qualifications, recommendations, certifications of any sort (other than the license to drive a car and to live married life). I cannot tell ANYONE what to do.
Little Froggie, let me tell you a story. I was walking to shachris one morning, as I passed someone I smiled at him and said “Good Morning”, and we both went our merry way. The next morning I saw the same person, he told me that his day began sour and when I told him Good Morning it lasted the entire day and that is how he got through his day. So to all those people who do smile at someone they pass on the street & greet them with a good morning, you may be saving the day for that person, whether they are male or female.
Chazal made statements about touching people of the opposite gender, I don’t think that they made statements about not saying good shabbos to the opposite gender.
#takingbeingfrumtofar
epis. that is a very nice story however noone has ever said that to me and i say hi to everyone.
Utah — “Chazal made statements… I don’t think that they made statements about not saying Good Shabbos to the opposite gender”
Incorrect. Chazal definitely did make such statements, as quoted by posters before – ??? ?????? ????? ??? ???. A simple transalation of this is that a man is prohibited from “asking peace” – aka greeting – a woman. (Halevi before explained that it is not necessarily the intention of the words, but the statement is there to debate).
Anyways, “#takingbeingfrumtofar” is a bit harsh – not everything Chazal had to say explicitly; the Shulchan Aruch says “Hisrachek min Hanoshim” — distance yourselves from women. The Gemara countrless times numerates the issurim of having too much contact with the opposite gender. Whether greeting is specifically ossur is probably irrelevant; if it causes Hirhurim, it is Ossur.
Utah – read on. You’ll get to it.
Actually not touching is not from Chazal, it’s from the Torah (Bible), ?? ?????. Chazal made numerous statements about engaging opposite gender in conversation, idle chatter etc. The place is not here. Look up in Shulchan Aruch, ask your local qualified posek (as I wrote).
Just one note here, I think the Rambam who generally states to take the mean, middle, center path regarding all Middos and actions, deviates here regarding the separation of sexes and says “???? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ?????” (if I remember correctly). A person should distance himself EXCEEDINGLY from women.
That is being frum. (Chazal knew people’s inclination, they knew where EXTREME caution is needed.)
I always do to women. They only sometimes respond. (I live in a neighborhood of Brooklyn expats.)
Men it depends. If they’re walking with women then of course. If not, it depends which neighborhood I’m in. In my neighborhood, which is very yeshivish, I won’t unless they say it first, and generally they only say it first if they know me (friends of my dad’s, etc). It doesn’t necessarily come up, of course- I’ve often walked down the block and seen a guy cross the street when he saw me approach. Not sure whether to be offended or flattered… 🙂
I don’t think that saying good Shabbos is INHERENTLY flirting. I will definitely concede that in many cases it can be (walking a few shabbosim back with a couple of friends who were prettier than I am, we got a good Shabbos from them that was definitely not just politeness and concern for our well-being…), but it can also just be politeness, which seems to have gone the way of the dinosaur.
I said Good Shabbos to a total of 4 Women This Week!
…a total of 4 women.. Wonder how you got that TOTAL. (1.25 + 1.25 + 1.5, or maybe 3 x 1.3333 and round off the last woman)
yes.
Just passing by- oh, good Shabbos!
@DDD – Gut voch. 😛
Little Frogie, Maybe 4*1=4 or 1+1+1+1=4 or the derivative of 4x=4
Maybe if boys and girls would say Good Shabbos to each other there would not be a Shidduch crisis!!!!!
@little Froggie I did not know that the torah is called the bible. Thank you so much for clarifying it for me.
Ok it seems that I was wrong about my sources but based on the community I was raised in, It is common for people to say good shabbos to people of the opposite gender. That is what is considered polite. Maybe in your communities this is not the norm. However I am going to trust the Rabbis and the community I am from.
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