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Does anyone know how I can get into Rav Zalman Leib Tietelbaum of Satmar?
He isn’t the satmar rebbe. Rav Aaron is, you racist!
Being just 2 months away from Yom ha’Atzmaut, I wish both of them a sincere Yom ha’Atzmaut Sameach, & look forward IY’H to all of we Benai Yisroel reciting Hallel in unison & Achdus.
@pba shame on you 147 yom hastzmut is a sad day which is mourned by all of authentic Torah Jewry @oyr what do u mean get in do u want the phone number to the gabbai or
Address?
I’m confused As a KJ chusid dont you agree with PBA?
If Yom Haaztmaut is a sad day, I can only imagine what a day of Simcha is
zd: Visit them on Simchas Torah and you won’t have to imagine.
Lior simchas torah 2005 was particulary leibidig
Binyomin Netanyohu should keep up his excellent work for we Bnai Yisroel and not be scared off by the reprehensible remarks made against him earlier today by a rabbi visiting Belgium.
No I Just live in kj and I still have a small scar from 2005 and Benjamin netenyahu is the man most responsible for anti semitism in the world today
I was there and someone threw something and it hit my arm and I still have the scar
I would visit the main Bais Medrash in Williamsberg [ie it was THE Satmar Bais Medrash back in the day] – like on Rodney (anyone know – was only there once or twice) & right across the street is his house. I’d imagine you find a gabbai around and ask for what to do to speak to him.
DQB
Menachem Begin ZT’L whose 23rd Johrzeit is today 4th Adar Sheni as well as Binyomin Netanyohu are tremendous Ohavei Yisroel as Giuliani is a tremendous Oheiv America.
On the other end of the spectrum, Obama is a huge Sonei America, like 2 certain estranged brother are Sonei Medinat Yisroel.
Why would you want to get into see him?
kj chusid: I wonder who would be living in Eretz Yisroel now if there wasn’t a Jewish state.
The answer to your question flatbusher is that every Jew owes HaKoras haTov to Medinat Yisroel, and of-course to The Ribonno Shel Olom for having Orchestreted this wonderful gift to us on Yom haAtzmaut 1948, and hence we thank haShem by reciting Hallel on Yom haAtzmaut, and marvel on haShem having showered upon us this wonderful gift of Medinat Yisroel >>> Free access to Artzeinu haKedosho.
Praying tfor Medinat Yisroel to shape up being frumer is fine & noble, but we must still be Makir Tov for the good they serve us with.
U mean like attempting to draft us into there illegitimate army and beating us when we protest it? You mean the total secularizing of millions of Sephardim? Or do you mean causing anti semitism to rise tremendously? Which one of those things should I be thankful for 147? What you don’t understand is that the founders of Zionism were atheists and self hating Jews and they would have hated you just as much as they would hate me and the same still applies today
Response to KJ Chusid and others: it cannot be that Benyamin Metanyahu is responsible for the anti semitism today, because there was no State of Israel in the 1930s and yet Hitler and the Holocaust and Crystal Nacht happened and the Progroms in Russia likewise happened and there was no state of Israel, so NO you can’t blame Israel for anti semitism, because the Goyim would blame a Pea and a carrot as a reason to hate Jews.
While it’s true that anti semitism has been around long before the creation of Zionism the biggest catalyst of exacerbating anti semitism today is Zionism due to there occupation of the holy land
“the holy land”
holy to whom. last i checked “the zionists” didnt control mecca or medina.
Eretz hakoidesh u want I’ll call it palestine np
I hereby remind KJ chusid, that I am old enough to vividly remember the Chevron massacre on Shabbos Eikev, 18th Ov, 5689 when 67 fellow Jews were murdered by Arabs. So how dare anyone attribute attacks onto Zionism or Medinat Israel. Nothing could be further removed from the truth, indeed as leahle so correctly states vis a vis WW2 which was before our wonderful gift of Medinat Israel.
This coffee room which is doing a wonderful service, certainly is not a forum for any lies nor distortion of facts.
I hereby remind 147 that zionism existed before medinat yisrael.
147: The 1929 Chevron massacre was a result of the instigation of the zionists. Need I remind you that zionism predates 1948?
apushatayid: The term the “Holy Land” is universally used among all three major monotheistic religions to refer to Eretz Yisroel.
Over 20,000 Jewish soldiers have been killed and nearly 4,000 Jewish victims of terror have been murdered, in addition to over 100,000 maimed and injured in war and many more in terror, since the advent of zionism. This far exceeds the casualties in the Holy Land pre-zionism.
1/2 a free translation of a Yiddish transcript of a taped interview made some twenty years ago with the late Rabbi Baruch Kaplan, who was a principal of the Beis Yaakov Girls School in Brooklyn, and who was a student in the Hebron yeshiva (religious school) in 1929 at the time of the killing of a number of Jews by some Arabs. Rabbi Kaplan explains how events unfolded, and how it was the arrogant and cowardly Zionist maniacs who perpetrated the events by provoking the Palestinians
Rabbi Kaplan
I have also seen a letter from the Grand Rabbi of the Gerrer Hassidim of those days, Rabbi Avraham Mordechai Alter of Poland, regarding his trip to the Holy Land during the days when people were talking about emigrating to Palestine. He wanted to find out what kind of people the Palestinians were, in order to be able to advise people whether to move there or not. He wrote in his letter that the Arabs were a very friendly and fine people.
Afterwards, we were studying at the yeshiva in Hebron, and saw a bunch of boys in short pants carrying weapons on bicycles and motorcycles, running around the streets of Hebron. We were very worried about this. What were they up to?
The next morning we heard about the excitement in town, and even worse, we heard the crying and shouting. I and a friend, Avraham Ushpener, lived in an apartment that was part of a three-story building leased by a Jew from an Arab. We could hear all the noise from our apartment on the third floor. We were terrified to let the Arabs in because we knew how angry they had become, but a while later things calmed down. In total, some 65 people were killed. On the other side of town, however, the Jews were spared.
edited
2/2 Why am I telling this story? It is because I wanted to describe how the wicked Zionists, both today and in those days, were the cause of our suffering! They cooperated with the Nazis, and our religion teaches that a person who causes someone to sin is worse than someone who kills him.
It reminds me of an event recounted by Rabbi Moshe Schonfeld, who once visited Rabbi Avraham Yeshayahu Karelitz {Chazon Ish) when the Zionist state was established, and when there was fighting between the Zionists and the Arabs. Rabbi Schonfeld told Rabbi Karelitz about what was happening. Rabbi Karelitz told him that the crimes of the Zionists were much worse, because they were wicked heretics who were uprooting hundreds of thousands of Jews from their faith and that is much greater pain since our Sages stated that a person who causes another person to sin is much worse than if he kills him.
In our own days there is a Zionist leader (Begin), whose arrogance and selfishness is more important than anything else to him, and for which he is prepared to sacrifice hundreds and thousands of Jews. These heretics and evildoers, this Zionist leader of a state that killed the Judaism of the Yemenite and Moroccan Jews, and of many other Sephardic Jews! This is the work of these thugs and gangsters. And there are religious Jewish parties who dare to state that they love this man?! Everyone must know that the anger of the Arabs against us is only caused by the Zionists!
The Arabs were a friendly people to us, and I am a witness to it. We lived very well with them in Hebron. Rabbi Alter attested to this as well, and it is the accursed Zionists who caused them to hate us. The Zionists dare to use their power to expel the Arabs, and even today in Lebanon, they kill and butcher the Arabs; they wipe out whole villages with the airplanes they get from the United States.
I hereby remind 147 that zionism existed before medinat yisrael. But Churban haBayis was certainly anti Jewish, yet was way before Zionism.
Churban Bayis sheini was committed by the Europeans not the Arabs.
KJ Chusid- Both bad and good can be attributed to medinah, but that doesn’t mean we can ignore being makir tov for the good. You listed some of the bad things, but you cannot deny the main good that medinah has brought: there are more Jews and more Torah in Eretz Yisreol than since probably the fall of Beitar. I think that is something priceless and we owe the medinah a tremendous amount of hakaras hatov for that fact alone.
Masses of Jews have been moving into EY since the late 1800s. Hundreds of thousands moved in during the 30s and 40s alone, pre-48. Before the State existed there were well over half a million Jews in EY. The buildup of Jews moving predates the State. Ironically, it was the zionist agitation that caused the British to restrict Jewish immigration to Palestine.
&simcha you have to understand that Zionism caused the total secularization of millions of Jews it happens to be that individuals within there state which became frum not due to the state at all but due to private efforts your forgetting if not for Zionism millions of people wouldn’t have been become frei in the first place
Ironically, it was the zionist agitation that caused the British to restrict Jewish immigration to Palestine.
Except that now the state allows any Jew to make Aliya for the sole reason that they happen to be Jewish.
if not for Zionism millions of people wouldn’t have been become frei in the first place
That was then. Now almost half of all the world’s Jews live in Israel and the biggest Kiruv organizations are in Israel bringing hundreds of people to be chozer bitshuva every year. The seculars are no longer on a mission to bring the chareidim to become secular. The secularists want the Chareidim to get jobs and to join the army. The secularists want them to get jobs so they don’t have to direct such a large percentage of taxes to a segment that isn’t giving back and they want them to join the army so it won’t only be their children whose lives are at risk.
Secularazation had nothing to do with Zionism, it started in Europe with the Englightenment and the Haskallah , which was the jewish englishtenment in the early 1800’s
Zionism wasnt really a realistic option on the map until the 1890 with Hertzel. The Haskallah occured long before that
Simcha613:- Your remarks are so correct, and all the wonders we have in Eretz Yisroel since the Medina, are absolutely priceless:- “Avira Eretz Yisroel Machkima”, so how blessed we are to have Medinat Yisroel.
KJ, lior- Hi. First of all, I respect your position but I need to point out a distinct flaw in what you are saying. I have learned directly what Zionism is. In fact I elstned more about Zionism in high school than I did real torah kedosha. I would not consider myself a Zionist although I have my own personal opinions about the state.
Zionism isn’t an over arching term to describe people who are extremists, or who would die for the state of Israel. What you describe over and over in your posts are people who caused the seculariAtion of millions of Jews. You aren’t wrong. Herzel himself wasn’t relgiious. The early zionists for the most part were not religious and they ACTUALY opposed religion so much so that they used to spite the religious Jews around them by beig anti torah.
Now let’s move that to a modern day Zionist. Because there are two types. Since the development of mizrachi, the movement of Zionism has become a religious movement. This is not the people you are describing. This is the movement of today and I disagree when you say they are causing the secularization of millions of Jews. They themself our frum jews. Are we going to say how frum? That’s not a discussion for now and it’s itrelevent. According to their lifestyle they put a lot of emphasis on hakaras hatov for the state. So stop hating on them because they are learning the same torah as you. And they protect the people learning that Torah too.
Fine you want to say that they are not being treated fairly being forced into the army etc. again that is being done by secular government. I think even the modern orthodox Zionism agrees that learning Torah is important, after all they do have a hesder program set in place for boys who want both.
KJ chusid you say:
“you have to understand that Zionism caused the total secularization of millions of Jews it happens to be that individuals within there state which became frum not due to the state at all but due to private efforts your forgetting if not for Zionism millions of people wouldn’t have been become frei in the first place”
This is a myth. The haskalah started before zionism. Assimilation was in full force well before zionism. In fact Zionism was a shift TOWARDS an embrace of (a form) of Yidishkeit. Herzl was compleyl secular he favored a complete rejection of Yidishkeit. A first. However asfter Dreyfus he changed his mid and favored an acceptace of a form of Judaism. Granted a very watered down cultural/nationalistic form. But Zionism wasnt a rejection of Jewsih Religion, quite the opposite it was a rejection of assimilation. The evil Neturei KArta misleadingly passes off Herzl’s prezionist writings as his view all along. This is not the case.
Ourtorah it’s not only the learning that’s the problem Jewish people are not allowed to have a army or state for that matter so my issue with the draft isn’t only due to bitel Torah it’s also because they are attempting to force us to participate in there rebellion against hashem
KJ Chusid is absolutely correct regarding the Satmar Shittah. They believe that it is an absolute issur to have a country ruled by Jews before the time of Moshiach, and that is one of the main things holding back the Geulah, as well as causing most of the evils of the world (Ayin VaYoel Moshe).
Kjc, I’m not at all impressed with your description of fine sweet friendly Arabs. You will have no problem finding accounts of cordial relationships between Germans and Jews in Germany and other countries in Europe, before Hitler yemach sh’mo rose to power. I have family members who can provide detailed verification of this. While there is nobody I can speak to who lived in Spain 600 years ago, the historical records will prove the same for Spanish- Jewish relationships pre- Inquisition.
When HKBH in His infinite wisdom decides that the time has come for goyim to rise up and persecute us, He allows their true sinah to come forth in all its evil, bloodthirsty manifestations.
Your attempt to attribute kind exemplary middos to our enemies is outrageous and also sheker.
KJ- so tell them that. Don’t complain here about it! Quite honestly I don’t think they get your perspective so you will need to explain it to them. Imnot saying I agree with anyone here I’m just trying to show you their perspective. From their perspective they are greatful to HaShem for giving then back the land they were promised. And they feel compelled to protect it, as every country around them is calling for their destruction.
You aren’t wrong when you say so many people have died because of the state. But so many people have also lived. Think about the assimilation that goes on here in America. It’s mind boggling. I’m not justifying that is happening there, again only trying to give you insight into their train of thought. Whether you think it’s right or wrong is itrelevent. You have no argument until you at least listen to the perspective of the group you are attacking.
I’ve listened however there isn’t any logic to what there saying
KJ-it’s not a matter of logic. They think there’s no logic to what your thinking. In their mind they would be crazy to not have an army. How did the suspects who yemach shemo killed the four kedoshim in the shul in har nof, how were they neutralized? By police and army forces. In their mind they think it’s outrageous not to have an army protecting the Jewish people. You think exactly opposite.
That’s fine. I’m not saying you have to agree with them. Im saying have dialogue with them.
GAW- what makes u so sure it’s not sinas chinam that is causing all the atrocities world wide. It’s ncie of you to pin blame on other people but that will make YOU unproductive in trying to change that. Start focusing on why you are not helping bring the geulah. yiu sound learned and smart but you also sound close minded and not lviing of your fellow Jew. So before you gk and critique a whole group of Jews and pin the blame on them, focus on fixing yourself. If your all done fixing yourself and feel others are not fixing themselves then go out and help them see why. but stop blaming them.
“I’ve listened however there isn’t any logic to what there saying”
As great as the Satmar Rebbe Z’l was and continues to be through his sefarim and talmidim, many, many, many gedolim simply disagree with him as it relates to his shitta regarding “the medina”. You are obligated to follow the shitta of your Rebbe, as others are obligated to follow theirs. I’m sure you are aware that Rav Elyashiv and Rav Ovadia Yosef Zichronam Livracha were on the payroll of “the medina”.
OURtorah – I have no idea what is causing anything; I’m just quoting what the Satmer Rov held. You can ask one of the current Rebbes (or KJ) to explain the shittah.
Don’t blame me for being the mailman.
Kj, the Crusader massacres, the Arab pogroms in Spain, the Black Death slaughters, the Cossack mass killings of the 1600’s, the Czar’s repeated pogroms all took place prior to Zionism. In fact, it was the Dreyfus trial and its demonstration of rampant French antisemitism that prompted Herzl to found Zionism.Jewry in Eastern Europe in the 20’s and 30’s was unfortunately catching up to Western Europe and the USA on the path toward assimilation.
GAW,KJ – alright, what is the shittah then? What would compel a Rav to lay blame on someone else, when he should be teaching his followers to work on themselves and stop hating other frum jews?
OURtorah, the Satmar Rav (R ‘Yoel) was possibly the biggest ohev Yisroel of the generation. He saw fit to teach his followers (but writes not to bother with others because they won’t understand) how bad Zionism was because he was defending Hashem’s word.
Who hates frum Jews what are u talking about
DAAS YOCHID- Thank you for your explanation. I do know satmar chassidim and they do huge amounts of chesed. But I never heard that shittah and it felt a little bit unahavas yisroel type to me. But thank you for Yor insight. I don’t know so much on this rebbe and that’s why the shittah strung a chord within me
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