S or T

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  • #612597
    Davar Katan
    Member

    Was the original pronunciation “S” and the modern orthodox changed it to “T” or was it originally “T” and the yeshivish changed it to “S”?

    #1012206
    Redleg
    Participant

    Actually the original pronunciation was closer to the “th” sound in “think”.

    #1012207
    Davar Katan
    Member

    I sink you’re wrong.

    #1012208
    I. M. Shluffin
    Participant

    I thought the original ? was “t” and it was the ? that sounded like “th”. However, I’ve been known to occasionally make a mistake. Feel free to correct me without hurting my feelings.

    #1012209
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The Modern Orthodox were not involved.

    #1012210
    akuperma
    Participant

    The original was probably a “th”, and the evolution into “T” (among Sefardi) and “S” (among Ashkenazim) occured well before modern times. The dialect spoken in Eretz Yisrael evolved naturally and combines all the mistakes of the leading dialects, which is logical since most languages evolve that way (that Israel Hebrew fails to distinguish between Aleph/Ayin, Saf/Taf, Daled/Thaled, Gimmel/Jimmel, kawmatz/patach, non-use of the thrid person future feminine, use of direct word order, etc.). Spoken languages tend to simplify over time (e.g. English having lost almost all use of gender, subjunctive, and the loss of its gutterals).

    This is a fascinating subject for linguists, but of no theological importance.

    #1012211
    wallflower
    Participant

    Actually the ? was “th” as in “think” and the ? was “th” as in “this.” Go listen to some Yemenites.

    #1012216
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    That’s only the soft Daled.

    #1012217
    I. M. Shluffin
    Participant

    Interesting… But Israeli Hebrew does recognize certain sounds by adding an apostrophe after the letter. Like, ?? is th, and ?? is j. For instance, ??? ??? (cup of joe, cafe joe, whatever it is – it has a j sound).

    #1012218
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    In our (Ashkenazic, at least) system we have a Dagesh for the Beis, Kaf, Peh and Tav. Originally, there was one for the Gimmel, Daled and Resh. Temanim have the Gimmel and Daled but not the Reish, which I am told shows up exactly once in Tanach.

    #1012219
    Davar Katan
    Member

    and who invented the dot under the z and h ?

    #1012220
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    the daled was “th” ish like yemenites, thats how they were maarich by daled of “hashem echod”

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