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OK, this question came up in another thread, so instead of going off topic…
Is it muttar to tear letters on shabbos?
Before you answer:
- If no, why is it assur? Which melacha is it?
- How about letzorech ochel nafesh? (the packaging or the food itself)
- What about a library book – the letters that are stamped on the top?
See moish, u DO care
moish was I not supposed to see this lol
I’m waiting for my answer on the yetzer hara thread. thats why
The issur is ????, erasing. The case you gave regarding food, is an issur d’rabanan. As for cases of “need” ask your Rov.
As for the library book, I was told one should put a bookmark in before shabbos (“breaking” the stamp) to avoid issues
Please let me clarify. Ripping letters is ????. There are cases where doing so will be an issur d’oreisa. Generally speaking, ripping letter when opening food packaging will only be a rabbinic issur of ????.
Moish if u REALLY cared, u would do
It is assur to tear letters on Shabbos. It comes under the melacha of mochek. If it is for food- you can open a package (some poskim say different ways to do it) but never on letters. And about opening a book with words stamped on it: the mishna berura says says it perferable not to- but it’s not assur.
>>Jay, every time you turn a page you’re being “mochek.”<<
Not if there is a bookmark in it from before. You cannot be mochek that which was already mochek! You already broke-up the words “Brooklyn Public Library!”
>>and what about if the words are the food. say, on a cake of something. <<
Also a prob. Frosting on a cake is problematic. However, when it is made of the same substance (e.g. a candy bar where the chocolate is shaped to spell the name of the candy) does not have an issue of mochek
Moish: ha no, after I sent it I’m like that totally didn’t make sense…but moish since u DO care why don’t u do what’s right?
i dont think its so simple concerning food (like icing on cake). as far as i know, there are different opinions, so this is probably not the best place to find out what u should do.
>>mind you, why is mochek only with words? <<
There is also a separate issur of ripping. The can overlap
moish01: b4 u get all skeptical, read my post
moish: this milacha is regarding letters not pictures!!!
There are Sefardim who permit tearing letters on food packaging.
moish01: simple (sry). she doesnt understand ur logic, & u dont understand hers
Library books, or other books with lettering on the page-ends – some people leave book-marks between the pages, and/or leave the books open before Shabbos. I don’t know what people do as far as closing those books or reopening them if they got closed on Shabbos.
Frosting on cakes – I remember learning that letters made with honey are OK, but otherwise there may be a problem.
Unfortunately, I don’t remember mekoros, and don’t have time to look things up now.
I seem to recall “k’sav ha’ussuy lemachak” (writing done with the intent of having it erased) is a kuleh.
In the Mishkan:
If an error occurred when the letters were written on the Keroshim, the error was erased, so that the correct letter could be written in its place.
moish01: i kno what ur saying. but i can understand that for her, it may just be that simple, knowing that its right, she does it. even for me, for many things, just knowing that i should be doing something, i will do it, because i avoid guilt almost at all costs. i really have no idea what syrian’s life is like, but i can tell you that sometimes it IS simple in some areas for some ppl. not that life is a breeze for anyone, but regarding specific things, it may be easier than for you, it’s true.
dont forget that somethings come naturally to you that are harder for other ppl, so dont think you have it the hardest as a whole.
i feel like i have definitely written this to you before but maybe not exactly? sorry if im repeating myself.
moish: till afew years ago, i used to rip the letters on food, but B”H i was able to stop myself now.$
moish01: thats not what i said! u can go back & check but i said “don’t think you have it the hardest“, not u dont have it hard.
i dont think you have it easy. you’ve already established that point. very clearly. i got it.
wow i just saw this for the first time now – at least a month later!!! how weird. i barely remember this conversation.
moish01: you make some really interesting assumptions
pain… ripping letters. Does it get any farther apart?
as far as i know with the issur of mochek that we do not rip on words is be`etzem a chumrah
nogeah eating cakes icing the ramah in 340 bfeirush says it is muttur [aval yeish cholkim ayin shum heiteiv] the mishnah brurah is mevaer it is domeh to opening and shutting a door on shabbos that there there is no issur of boneh soser because it is made to be like that
nogeah library books there is what to be somech on to be meikal ie the svarah of the mishnah berurah and that it is not really mochek al mnas lichtov vchu’ but i am not a posek lmaaseh in the real world so don’t be somech on me.
Enough of your games Mr. bugnot A.K.A. bugyes A.K.A. Chacham A.K.A. posek hador A.K.A. shtultzy guy A.K.A. shmoigel A.K.A. not my real name A.K.A. curiousme.
I can go on and on and on. Pick a screen name and stick with it already!
are you queen kapusta & asdfghjk too???
of course, you’re really just joseph – that includes everyone, right?
an open book: I’m new to this site, stop suspecting me already!!!!!!!!
You claim to be new yet you seem to do a pretty good job at asdfghjkl’s style!!!!
ONe thing i guarantee you mod, I AM NOT ASDFGHJKL
I believe you. You are not him, but you are trying to impersonate him. People around here know him and get confused when they see your name. The style doesn’t majke it any better!!!!!
!!!!!!!! seems awfully familiar.
mod, you mean head in the sand wasn’t part of the list?
Yes, head in the sand is the same person. Like I said, I can go on and on…
weird how the mods don’t quite buy your story!
Back to ripping letters… You can rip bugnot… Here.
mod42: thank you! now back to ripping letters-or not ripping letters!
Opening a Shabbosdik book with letters is not a problem, but the M”B brings that there is a minhag to be stringent – unless there are no other seforim available (in which case we are more concerned with the aveira of bittul torah than a minhag).
Sometimes i think i am the only nebbish here with only 1 name! And NO subtitle! Hallooo!… Anybody else out there????
The subtitles i get- who wouldn’t? But the multiple names- i just don’t know. Why?
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