Responsibility and the Jewish Blogger

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  • June 24, 2011 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #597616
    I can only try
    Member

    ????? ?????? ??? ?????

    We are aware that our posts and (for those of us who have them) blogs must avoid obvious no-nos shuch as loshon hora and nivul peh.

    – In a online environment, all that exist is speech. There is no other interacting and form of socialzation.

    – A comment posted online is for all practical purposes out there forever and for the whole world to see. Even if the site removes it, Google and others likely have it archived for anyone who wants to retrieve it.

    – Loshon Hora. The most obvious one, and it applies to true factual information that is relayed without meeting the halachic requirements of permissibility. Jut because one feels strongly about the subject, there is no heter to engage in this.

    – Gayvah. Bragging and arrogant behavior.

    – Schanudenfreude to our fellow Yid. This needs no elaboration.

    Please add your thoughts, comments, responses, additions and corrections.

    June 24, 2011 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #781156
    shlishi
    Member

    At least in the CR, I’ve never seen one poster call another poster an “apikorus”. I have seen (especially in the much older threads) being mevazeh talmidei chachomim (most times as a group rather than individual.) Loshan hora has gotten through a lot on the main pages more than the CR. Taking credit for someone else’s words is a special problem in halacha (I think it removes bracha but is not an aveira), rather than sheker per se. Although many times when quoting another anonymous poster on another site, it is difficult to credit something anonymously, and this sites policy doesn’t allow links or competitors attributions. Considering the anonymity here, its hard to imagine posting someone elses secret, unless that persons first posted it (and presumably then it isn’t a secret.) The biggest problem I have noticed though (again more on the much older threads) was apikorsus that was in fact posted.

    Then is the issue of how the halacha is affected considering the fact that for the most part everyone is anonymous to everyone else.

    June 24, 2011 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #781157
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    Would I be Megale Sod to wonder out loud if ICOT is in fact a MOD???

    June 24, 2011 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #781158
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    But yes, your article is beautifully written. LONG OVERDUE. I hope my rantings no longer fall into any of those categories (there goes ga’ava!)

    June 24, 2011 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #781159
    YW Moderator-80
    Member

    he is not

    but should be

    June 24, 2011 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #781162
    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    Kudos to you, Icot!

    June 24, 2011 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #781164
    mw13
    Participant

    ICOT:

    Thanks for the reminder. Also I would like to point out that by many of the issues you mentioned, one could can be oiver a lav per word. We have to think before posting.

    Mod. 80:

    Thank you for your crackdown on LH.

    June 24, 2011 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #781165
    shlishi
    Member

    one could can be oiver a lav per word. We have to think before posting.

    Are you trying to assert that per (spoken) word in halacha is equivalent to per (typed) word online, in regards to being oiver a lav per word?

    June 26, 2011 9:01 am at 9:01 am #781166
    600 Kilo Bear
    Member

    At least in the CR, I’ve never seen one poster call another poster an “apikorus”.

    —

    That is because the comments are moderated :). There is no point even trying to break the rules; the post won’t go up.

    June 26, 2011 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #781167
    I can only try
    Member

    Just to be clear – none of the original post was addressed to any individual or about any particular blog or website.

    I deliberately used the word “Jewish” and not “frum” because these are concerns regardless of where one sees ones self in the broad spectrum of Jewish society.

    ===========================

    shlishi–

    Some of the original post was written in response to things posted on this site, but quite a bit wasn’t. There are many Jewish bloggers who post on other sites and/or maintain their own blogs and this was addressed to those, too.

    The “loshon hora” reference was not about one anonymous poster regarding another, but rather discussion of “real world” people.

    As you said, “Loshon Hora” and “malbin pnai chavero berabim” may well be different if the target’s real name is unknown (IMO, anyway – I’m not a rov). As others have pointed out though, it may not be an unknown target, since some people may know who a SN belongs to – certainly on this site the moderators may know it.

    ZeesKite–

    Thank you.

    Many other people have written similar posts previously – this isn’t the first such post, just the most recent.

    Moderator-80–

    Thank you.

    I respectfully disagree.

    am yisrael chai–

    Thank you.

    mw13–

    We certainly see cases where every single word is part of the cheshbon – Yosef lost years of his life for every “avdecha avinu” he allowed, Yaakov lost years because of his “me’at vera’im” response.

    600kilobear returns–

    True.

    The original post included things I haven’t seen on this site.

    June 26, 2011 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #781168
    mw13
    Participant

    shlishi:

    “Are you trying to assert that per (spoken) word in halacha is equivalent to per (typed) word online, in regards to being oiver a lav per word?”

    Yup.

    ICOT:

    Also, I believe that the Chofetz Chaim writes that one is oiver a lav per word by lashon hara, onas devorim, etc.

    June 26, 2011 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #781169
    shlishi
    Member

    mw13: On what (halachic) basis do you make that correlation?

    June 28, 2011 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #781170
    I can only try
    Member

    shlishi–

    Whether or not it’s explicitly stated in halocha, I’d assume shmiras haloshon applies equally to written or spoken speech. This is because the issue isn’t the physical method with which the words are produced (unlike brachos and shofar, where electronic transmission causes one not to be yotzeh), but rather the conveyance of info. That’s why LH applies equally by phone or in person.

    mw13–

    My assumption (which has zero halachik validity) notwithstanding, do you know of a place where written speech is paskened to be equal to the spoken word re: shmiras haloshon?

    am yisrael chai–

    A better answer than my original one to your prior statement would be:

    Kudos to Klal Yisroel, who are aware of these issues and make an effort to do what’s right, as opposed to the secular world where this type of post would be laughed out of the room, and entire industries are built on gossip.

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