respecting yeshiva bachurim

Why is it someone elses busniness if another individual smokes or not. Is it affecting you directly? If not, mind your own

Are you appalled by people who speak Lashon Hara?

Are you appalled by lack of tznius?

Are you so perfect that YOU never do anything wrong and follow the Torah to the T?

Stop judging others, it’s Gaava

There is only one true judge and it’s NOT YOU

If the learning is not “l’kanter” (as was the case with haskalah), then it will automatically refine the person. I happened to have mentioned “Torah Lishma”, but as long as it’s not for evil purposes, “mitoch shelo lishma, ba lishma”.

@apushtayid-

learning always has a positive effect and refines one who learns it except in very rare cases (if you learn for the sake of using it to argue with people which may be true of the leaders of the haskalah movement, see the sugya on Torah shlo lishmah bah lishmah).

btw there were torah giants who held a kollel guy should generaly not take out the garbage because he is a guy learning torah all day so just because you dont like it if he is doing it because he is following those gedolim he is doing the right thing!!

Please tell me (and provide sources) which gedolim said that if the wife needs help and asks the kollel husband to take the garbage out that he should refuse because of Kavod HaTorah.

The Wolf

(P.S. — just as using ALL CAPS is considered “shouting,” using all lowercase is considered mumbling. Please use capital letters where appropriate. Thanks.

The Wolf)

Kavod Hatorah, what do you mean by “how many balabatim are bney aliyah {and the few that are, its great}”? Most working men I know absolutely are “bnei aliyah”!

If you are smoking (absolutely assur according to rabbonim nowadays to start) are they actually doing Hashem’s will? Learning in and of itself does not make a person deserving of respect if they don’t apply halacha. Otherwise, an apikorus who learns would be deserving of our respect!

And yes, please list rabbonim that matir a man from taking out the garbage.

“Something else I’ve seen – a bachur is home for Shabbos, and corrects his father at the Shabbos table in a very superior manner. Since when is it even permitted, much less simple derech eretz, to “correct” your father/mother openly in public”

Yes, I have seen this, too. The boys come home from 2 years of learning in E”Y, and all of a sudden they are re-arranging the kitchen and throwing out things that are in the pantry. I highly respect the Rov who instructed his talmidim NEVER to do this when they go home, that it is insulting to the kovod of their parents, and they have no right to upset the family dynamic.

In a home that is not Cholov Yisrael for example, the boy may ask his mother if she could get that for him along with the other household foods when she is shopping, but he cannot throw out her C”S or demand that she only use products under a hechsher that HE likes.

To correct a parent, is not only oveir their kovod, but also the mitzvah of “Ish Imo V’Aviv Tira-u.” There is a way to get one’s point across without sounding arrogant or smug. When that is not done in that way, then I cannot respect such a bochur.

Re: smoking – I can respect the Torah a bochur knows, and even respect him, if he is a mensch. But I cannot, will not, and do not, respect the choice he makes to inhale a well-known poison in his lungs on a regular basis, and then exhale it into the air that the rest of us are forced to breathe along with him.

BTW, KT, you live in the wrong neighborhood.

Where I live, many of the Baal Habatim that work are talmidei chachamim in their own right, who give shiurim, are mechaber sforim, etc.

Perhaps you should move from where you are to a Makom Torah?

kavod hatorah,

btw there were torah giants who held a kollel guy should generaly not take out the garbage

Who held this?

I definitely agree with you in concept that Yeshiva students engaged in Torah learning should be given respect. I recently read a biography of the Chofetz Chaim which listed two ways he encouraged respect of his Yeshiva bochurim: having the boys take their meals at the Yeshiva instead of in private homes (so they were not made to feel like beggars), and telling men attending an early morning minyan at his Yeshiva’s beis medrash to be quieter so that the sleeping students were not disturbed.

At the same time, the Chofetz Chaim himself was seen shoveling snow out of the walkway of his Yeshiva’s beis medrash so that his students could have a safe walk. If the Chofetz Chaim himself could do chores and the honor of the Torah was still upheld, then how could the Torah’s honor be affected by a Yeshiva student doing chores? On the contrary, it shows kavod to the Torah because the student shows kavod to his parents and/or his wife, both critical Torah values.

“how many balabatim are bney aliyah {and the few that are, its great}

This surely ranks as one of the most hateful things ever written on YWN.

The alter of slabodka held that people that torah is their job should be treated like prince’s{prince’s dont take out the garbage} so his students like rav ruderman rav kaminetsky and rav hutner held this way.

Who’s inference was made in the brackets?

Also, which Royalty are we supposed to emulate? Kings and princes of flesh and blood? Or our King?

Kavod Hatorah? More like a bizayon.

And of course we treat our wives like queens but the way its supposed to be woman doing housework.

If a man is not fulfilling his terms of the ketubah (AKA financial support), why does the housework fall to the woman? I can guarantee that a Prince is likely to take out the garbage before a Queen in all cultures.

I live in Teaneck. The men who work do not just float in, mumble words and then leave. They come, they daven with a lot of kavana, learn when they can, and leave. Perhaps Teaneck is the true Ir hakodesh, not Lakewood? LOL

“but the learning guy who is sweating over a gemarah is considered second class.”

If you mean the guy who fulfills his responsibilities and learns as well- he should be respected.

If you mean the guy who starts his learning career by looking to marry a rich father-in-law; no.

kavod hatorah-

can u cite to where they said this? Because while I don’t know much about R’ Ruderman, I know a big Chaim Berliner whose Rav was R’ Hutner and he is the one who takes out the garbage, not the wife.

No one adressed the fact that if my rebbe was rav ruderman or rav hutner thats what i would be told to do!!

You have not addressed the fact that you have supplied no proof that either Rav held this way…

OMG, when I first posted the example of the garbage, I was positive that everyone would understand how ridiculous it is….it takes all kinds, I guess.

Funny, though, how the bigger the gadol, the less of a problem the whole garbage thing is.

Anyone who feels that he cannot take out the garbage because it’s not Kavod for him: In yiddish they say, “Meigst zich sheimen”. (Shame on you.)

No one adressed the fact that if my rebbe was rav ruderman or rav hutner thats what i would be told to do!!

That’s why they call it a red herring.

Yummy, but distracting.

Or is it a Fallacy of Accident?

I’m not sure. I’ll put up the Ruy Lopez with the Marshall Counterattack & Chewbacca Defense.

Kavod Hatorah-

Are you really of the opinion that kollel wives should be the ones to take out the garbage?

My husband would never ever let that

And I’m the one with more muscles….

I think the rabbonim that were saying that the learning men don’t have to take out the garbage, were mostly referring to the ones that are constantly learning and rather have the wife do it vs. telling the husband to be mevatel from learning. I’m talking about the guys that never miss a seder, the guys that rarely go to a simcha and even if they do, they’re sitting in a corner learning, the guys that are even learning bein hazmanim and not going on vacation. Being in kollel doesn’t automatically put you on that madrega and give you that heter. …and I challenge anyone to find me rov that will say otherwise.

…at the end of the day, I know my marriage better than my rebbe does.

A true gadol understands this and would never advise without considering all of the angles.

Technically, the yeshiva bachurim that are looking for respect will end up in Kollel