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A few years ago, in a period of rebelliousness, I downloaded a few non-Jewish songs to my iPod. They were really gorgeous songs, but eventually, B”H, I deleted them and went on with my life.
About 20 seconds ago, I was about to watch a news video and the ad came on – and the background music was one of those songs. And I am FREAKING OUT because very soon I am going to go and re-listen to that song. A hundred times.
HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP
Don’t do it, stay here and we’ll serenade you
I thought you deleted it.
There are 76 free songs available for download on Mostly Music. Some are really nice.
I can croak it in a way you’d NEVER want to hear it again!
i like DYs suggestion. Get yourself busy with checking out those free downloads. One will hopefully ge stuck in your head instead, or at least the time distraction will lessen the pull
Daven for HaShem to help you overcome this!
And imagine the guilt and regret you will feel after you listen, knowing you could have overcame your taava.
another way to look at this situation:
HaShem is just testing you. He’s just giving you an opportunity to get closer to you. If you listen, know you will have failed the test, ultimately ruining a chance to get closer to HaShem.
Bekitzur
Tell yourself that you worked too hard the last few years to overcome this yetzer hora to go now and throw that away. If you listen to these songs now you may get sucked in to listening to non Jewish music again. Tell yourself over and over its simply not worth it. Also say shir hamaalos esa einai from a Tehillim and ask Hashem to help you overcome the nisayon. A big Tzaddik who is no longer living gave me this idea in a different area. It works.
DON’T DON’T DON’T!!!! PLEASE!!!!!
I had a similar thing happen to me, I wanted to put just a few songs back on my iPod. Just a few, and they were clean songs! What could be wrong. So I did have a kabbala, but cmon this was almost pikuach nefesh. It’s for my mental health… so anyways I took out my iPod so I could hook it up to my computer, put it on the counter for 2 seconds and when I come back it’s somehow in the sink and completely water logged. Everyone claimed they didn’t touch it while I was gone. So I was never able to revive it, so the songs never made it back on.
Streekgeek, that’s a great story.
As a baal teshuva. One story I can tell you is that I once bought a ticket to a concert for not jewish music and my parents who aren’t religious made me sell the ticket because they didn’t think it was appropriate for me to go to that concert.
One Shtickel advice I can offer is, if the words are clean, sing it to yourself for 15 minutes straight.
Haleivi: I disagree with you. That might have the opposite effect. Music can really penetrate the neshama.
I’m aware. I’m also aware of how to get rid of a longing to a particular song. I’ve done it. Sing it out once.
streekgeek, great story. I guess someone has to say it: You really synced your iPod.
Bekitzer, it’s so nice to see that there are others out there who have this struggle and bring it out into the open. I’m having major internal conflicts about this now. I love a certain non Jewish singers songs. I find myself playing them many times a day. As much as I know that it’s wrong, it still listen to that music. For some reason, I feel a strong connection to many of the songs. Besides, does it say anywhere in the Torah specifically that you’re not allowed to listen to such music?
LAB- GR8 1!
Here’s a tip: if u have a playlist of nonjewish music on ur iPod, label it NISAYON. How r u ever gunna listen to that stuff when every time you go on ur iPod you see that word!
Nice, LAB. Here in the CR, we discuss everything, including the kitchen synch.
RS613, I would think that someone would sooner delete than label “nisayon”.
“Gorgeous songs”? Songs aren’t gorgeous. Torah is gorgeous, mitzvos are gorgeous. But who ever describes a song as gorgeous?
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business: There is no Issur if the song is entirely clean (assuming there are no Kol Isha issues). That being said, losing internal struggles with oneself never bodes well for one’s future internal struggles. If you are going to hold that clean non-Jewish music is okay, you need to do so because you have honestly researched and determined it’s okay (in addition to having a P’sak from a Rav that it’s okay), and not just because it’s a way for you to get what you want.
EDIT: What I meant to say is that a clean non-Jewish song is just as Muttar as any Jewish song is.
Sam, one heter for listening to music is that it’s spiritually uplifting, and that would apply to Jewish music more than to secular music (although not to much of what today passes for “Jewish” music).
Someone who listens to non-Jewish music is not allowed to be a (permanent) Shliach Tzibur. The Mishneh Berurah comments that this is referring to religious songs from churches and other religions, and the problem is that he may mix them in to his nusach.
It’s interesting that the MB does not say that anyway one should not listen to non-Jewish music; he implies that this is the only concern.
Sure, I bet the chofetz chaim had tons of songs on his ipod.
DY: “Spiritually uplifting” is entirely subjective. I’m sure there are many people who find secular songs more inspiring than any Jewish song.
I once had a thread about this which joseph was kind of mad in
lol LAB 🙂
I was told by one of my rebbeim that jewish music is ais lassos (nowadays) but that one should understand that really its all assur.
@LAB where does the m”b say the issue is he will mix it into his nusach. additionally the bach and m”a and basically every other shita says that it is referring specifically to shirim of a”z (maybe even specifically shirim hamiyuchad lazeh).
Agav if any of the talmidei chachomim over here know what type of songs the girsa of the kol bo/biur hagra is referring to over there I would be grateful.
LAB
I don’t think he is implying that at all I think you’re going out on a limb to infer that from his words. I think all he is saying is that listening to goyish music per se does not disqualify one from being a shatz but because of that second consideration of tunes he would use it would disqualify him. Additionally he isn’t discussing Kol isha or songs that discuss divrei cheishek and have inappropriate words and subject matter.
Business1
Did you see Sams reply?
DONT DO IT. PERIOD. END OF SENTENCE
I am Makpid to listen to classical music. Once in a while I falter and listen a drop to “Jewish” music, or even worse, “Musica Chasidit”. Liszt’s (how do you pronounce that music will do much more for you than Kida Lisa ah ah Honey.
Bekitzur
What happened in the end?
Haleivi
Most of the classical musicians were from the biggest low lives to walk this earth in their personal lives. They are a lot worse than today’s singers and musicians especially because they were highly intelligent educated people who knew better and should have acted a lot better than they did. The music comes from a dirty soul and it goes into you. It definitely dulls your spiritual senses whether you are aware of it or not.
It definitely dulls your spiritual senses whether you are aware of it or not.
I disagree. If classical music keeps you from listening to worse stuff, keep listening to it! I find that it actually helps me more than it harms me.
Streekgeek
Classical is better than the junk of today with all its lyrics and the crazy beats but it is still harmful in a more subtle way. Its a madreiga. I was speaking to Haleivi.
@WIY
Classical music according to many authorities (ironically) would be more likely to be mutar than jewish songs with a faster tempo and I have heard that it is not considered a davar shel simcha. I have even heard of a heter to listen to it during the 3 weeks (could be based on rav shlomo zalman again maybe one of the posters here knows a mareh makom).
jbaldy: See the Nitei Gavriel on this (I think it’s in his Halachos of the 3 weeks).
WIY: I’ve still yet to see an actual Makor for you “music entering the soul” bit. Do you honestly believe that I could listen to 2 identical songs–with the exact same notes, lyrics, etc.–and yet be positively affected by one but negatively by another because they were written contemporaneously by different people?
Do you honestly believe that I could listen to 2 identical songs–with the exact same notes, lyrics, etc.–and yet be positively affected by one but negatively by another because they were written contemporaneously by different people?
This is impossible and can never happen. Music is a thing that comes from the soul and emotions of a person and two souls can not come up with the same tune.
jbaldy22 – You’re 100% right! I must have assumed that that was the reason when I originally learned it, and in my head I remembered the MB saying it. Interestingly, I just looked at it again; the Rema uses the word “miranen”, which seems like it’s only a problem if he sings; merely listening to them is not a problem.
I believe I did make note of the fact that this was referring only to religious songs, as you said.
WIY – I never meant to use this as a mekor to listen to non-Jewish music; I was merely noting that the MB does not add on (as he often does in similar situations) that either way it is assur.
For a discussion on kol isha, see the Mishneh Berurah (75:17) where he initially states that kol isha of a p’nuyah (single girl) is muttar. He then modifies that to exclude Jewish girls (because of chezkas niddah) and non-Jewish girls (because of ervah). So only a Jewish single girl who is tahor would be permissible, and even then only without any thoughts of arayos. Basically, kol isha is assur.
Personally, I do believe the theory that music goes into your soul (maybe a devarim shebileiv-esque theory), and some of the best musicians were some of the most messed-up. (Think Freddie Mercury, Michael Jackson)
@Sam2 Thanks for the mareh hamakom.
@LAB I was pointing out an important nekuda according to the Bach a song made for commercial production would not be included – it needs to be meyuchad lavoda zarah and popular music nowadays may not fall into that category even if the intentlyrics maybe christianity related (assuming you hold christianity is a”z). Someone here can correct me if I am mistaken.
Also the m”b about kol isha is based on a bach who makes no such qualifications (from my recollection). recorded kohl isha maybe a different animal entirely.
As a baal teshuva. One story I can tell you is that I once bought a ticket to a concert for not jewish music and my parents who aren’t religious made me sell the ticket because they didn’t think it was appropriate for me to go to that concert. “
Vogue, just because parents are not frum, does not mean that they are not seicheldig, good parents. Obviously they brought you up well.
For a discussion on kol isha, see the Mishneh Berurah (75:17) where he initially states that kol isha of a p’nuyah (single girl) is muttar. He then modifies that to exclude Jewish girls (because of chezkas niddah) and non-Jewish girls (because of ervah). So only a Jewish single girl who is tahor would be permissible, and even then only without any thoughts of arayos. Basically, kol isha is assur.
So a kallah the day of the wedding before the chuppah would not be assur?
Are you saying that the ‘Jewish’ jungle music played at chasunas today is spiritually uplifting? It is without even a taint of refinement, and I don’t care what the lyrics are, if you can even hear them over the megadecibel noise. There are many light secular songs of yesteryear that I would characterize as uplifting, or even inspiring, before this bilge.
So does kol isha for a penuya not start until she’s a gedola then?
JUST FOLLOW THE IGGOROS MOSHE AND DONT LISTENTO MUSIC AT ALL
ONLY BY WEDDINGS AND A SEUDAS MITZVA
WIY, yes I saw sams post. Kol isha doesn’t apply since I’m a girl. My question now is what is the fine line between Jewish and non Jewish music is. I think it’s really something I need to poskin for myself because I don’t think it makes sense to bring a list of songs to a Rav to ask them which ones are okay. Any ideas?
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