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Joseph, in his speech, Mr Rechnitz stated that he gets many calls from parents whose children have not been accepted.
Mr. Rechnitz is getting calls from parents who couldn’t get their child into their school-of-choice, even though they can get their child into another yeshiva/beis yaakov.
Obviously they only say they can’t get their child into school since they want to pressure their yeshiva-of-choice to accept them rather than “settling” for “second best”. And framing their complaint that they can’t get their child into yeshiva is more effective than correctly framing it that they can’t get into the yeshiva-of-choice but can get into other yeshivas that they may have not even applied or tried because of their insistence to stick only with their yeshiva-of-choice.
And all of this is really just an indicator that the footage of men landing on the moon was a hoax!
Joseph, in his speech, Mr Rechnitz stated that he gets many calls from parents whose children have not been accepted.
I don’t think he stated that they applied to all of the schools, and I don’t know if they were still without a school when the school year started.
Joseph, those are some pretty strong statements to make so definitively when there is no possible way you could even have an ounce of factual evidence to back yourself up with.
If so you say.
I don’t know who modified your post after I posted mine but I will accept that as an admission of responsibility for making false statements. Unfortunately there are more honest ways to go about it.
In Public school you are required to take ALL students in your area, While this has good and bad results (Meaning bad students are forced to be accepted and the good result is you dont have to fight to get your child in school)
I dont know the exact circumstances in Lakewood, but it does seem there is some issue of schools . I do get that people are not so happy About putting their children in schools without reputations. Maybe a lottery type system would be a better way or some other way to assign schools to children
You can accept that as an admission that the moon landing was faked too, but that ain’t make it so.
What was changed in Joseph’s post?
The only change was I added the last paragraph after having submitted the post. I don’t see how that changed the tenor other than elucidating the same point.
true, the post is still making definitive statements that cannot be backed up, you are correct about that.
The solution is to create one large boys elementary school and one large girls elementary school, one boys mesivta and one beis yackov high school, each with 120 parallel grades. This way everyone is vying to get into the same yeshiva/beis yackov.
How many children are there in Lakewood. I wouldnt be surprised if there are a similar number of high School age kids as there are in Lakewood High School. if Lakewoood High School is one School, there is no reason a similar cannot be built for the frum community
Even if you blame the parents, it is your responsibility to do something. If you saw someone actually killing a child, would you shrug your shoulders and say it’s not your fault, it’s theirs, and move on?
first of all the fact that deleted rechnitz is getting calls from all over klal yisroel to get kids in …is prob the reason that other people who dont have connections to him dont get in.
i also think that the fact that its their fault makes that we dont have to accept them into the good schools also we try to help them from “killing” their kids by having tag offices and mussar shmussen from roshay yeshiva etc. accepting them into the yeshivish schools will probably not change the future for the good of any kid thats brought up with open internet etc. in their house – on the contrary itll probably just ruin other kids.
to ubiquitin i agree that its a problem but he made it sound like kids are dropping like flies.
As far as I know motzei shem ra is no less a halachik issur than the internet. Watch your words please or I may have to be in touch with your kid’s principal’s
yeru, you are going on and on about internet and internet and internet as if everyone who doesn’t have internet is living a pristine life of Torah and Yiras Shamayim.
There are many other problems in all the schools besides internet. I agree 100% with the no internet rule. I also believe in the no motzei shem ra rule, the no illegal basement businesses rule, the no long sheital rule, the no hiding a tv in your closet rule, the no going to Miami and wearing a bathing suit with your tichel rule and the no telling businesses you are under 13 when you really aren’t rule.
Don’t kick out the kid who’s father has a netflix account while you accept a kid who’s father runs a cash business. Take them both or send them both walking.
Please understand that if you want to disinfect a learning environment, which I agree with, you can’t do it by closing the doors to swine flu while ingesting ebola. People do not get offended by individuals wanting better for their kids, people get offended when individuals want better for their kids but don’t take care of their own issues before rubber stamping someone else’s. And some people have become so accustomed to it that they won’t even know what is so offensive about it.
“open internet”.
How do yeshivas determine who does and does not have internet in their home and if they do have, have proper filters etc…
Do they employ a team of crack agents who infiltrate homes when everyone is out? Do they roam the streets with smartphones and tablets looking to find open wifi, what it connects to and then work backwards to the modem? Do they subpoena Verizon and Time Warner Cable for lists of their fios and internet subscribers? Do they have ruach hakodesh?
The kid whose father has netflix might be watching netflix when popa’s not home, while the kid whose father doesn’t report his off-the-books cash business is less affected by his father’s misdeed, even assuming he knows anything about it.
If the school has a no internet at home rule must they also have rules outlawing kids from homes where the parents talk during davening in shul or dress less than tznius outside?
Kids know what their parents do for a living, they are not stupid
So, how does the yeshiva know the father has netflix?
I have so many really, really funny answers to this
my comment before got messed up
It wasn’t messed up, it was repaired
“If the school has a no internet at home rule must they also have rules outlawing kids from homes where the parents talk during davening in shul or dress less than tznius outside?”
Of course not. It is important to specialize. One yeshiva will cater exclusively to those who have no internet at home. Another will cater to those whose parents never talk in shul while another will cater exclusively to those who excel in dressing in accordance with halacha. Of course it will be important to have competent poskim available to ask a shayla to when there is a parent who has wifi on their smartphone, but the wifi is disabled at home if that qualifies as “no internet at home”.
apy, you took the words right out of my mouth.
Apy -“The solution is to create one large boys elementary school and one large girls elementary school, one boys mesivta and one beis yackov high school, each with 120 parallel grades. This way everyone is vying to get into the same yeshiva/beis yackov”
There was once just the Cheder, Day School and then came YTT.
Ya’see more is not always better. All it did was create more Sinas Chinum!
YTT. Yeshiva of Torah and Technology?
Apy -“YTT. Yeshiva of Torah and Technology”
No. Yeshiva Tifferes Torah.
Ok. If you say so. I have no basis to disagree. I have no clue what schools do and dont exist in Lakewood.
Health, I hope you say that tongue in cheek. YTT is probably the best boys school in Lakewood. And speak to anyone who lived in Lakewood at that time. The community was desperate for another school and YTT filled that void.
MMC -“YTT is probably the best boys school in Lakewood. And speak to anyone who lived in Lakewood at that time.”
This I doubt!
“The community was desperate for another school and YTT filled that void.”
You totally missed my point! I was saying after YTT, we didn’t need all those schools that were made here.
The problem is that that the student enrollment far exceeds the number of slots available in yeshivas in Lakewood. Yeshivas are relying on tuition rather than fundraising to meet their budget. Limiting the power that a donor can exert to get a student in and likewise, limiting future donations by that family and it’s close relatives to that yeshiva. This in turn limits the yeshiva’s ability to grow and increase their student body.
This is happening wherever the Jewish community is growing. Yeshivas need to be built and they need to be open to all Orthodox Jews not just one segment, and must be supported by the community. The problem is that you really can’t tax the community anymore. People are barely getting by. Relying on the rich donor is not a solution, as they want to donate for a classroom building etc… something you can put a plaque on not teacher payroll expense. I don’t have the solution perhaps you do.
Abba , no yeshiva can rely solely on tuition, and that’s even if everyone pays full tuition, which is not the case How do yeshivas that stress fathers not working survive without fundraising?
Abba_S – In Lakewood, perhaps a school that charges what it actually costs, with no discounts (and transportation included!) would be successful.
The problem is Universal yeshiva education for all and affordable tutition for all are actually contrary to each other. Even if a school charges $2000 a kid tution, for a family with 5 kids, thats $10,000 post tax income. When you make $50,000 a year thats alot of money, many people make less than $50,000 and cannot pay the tution and unfortunatly many yeshivas do not follow acceptable accounting procedures like endowments , properly paying employees on time (Its against the law not to pay on time, even teaching torah) and its also foolhardy not to have proper insurance on your school. One lawsuit can shut down the school because of neglectful practices
zahavasdad – They could also only accept those who pay in full, just like any other service. I doubt SYR or any other askan will complain too much if a child is rejected because the parents refused to pay the tuition fee.
Depends what their reason is for refusing to pay full tutition.
Some people might refuse just because its just not possible. you cannot pay something you dont have.
Depends what their reason is for refusing to pay full tutition.
Some people might refuse just because its just not possible. you cannot pay something you dont have.
And I wanted to lease a Maserati, but I didn’t have the money. Should I run to Rechnitz?
If the policy is full tuition or elsewhere, that is the price that needs to be paid.
Gaw -“If the policy is full tuition or elsewhere, that is the price that needs to be paid.
There should be 2 full tuitions, one for the rich & one for the poor!
There should be 2 full tuitions, one for the rich & one for the poor!
There should be 2 prices for Maserati, one for the rich & one for the poor!
This is gavra l’shitaso (hamut’ah) that yeshiva/BY is a luxury.
So if someone cannot afford full yeshiva tuition, they should send their kids to public school?
This is gavra l’shitaso (hamut’ah) that yeshiva/BY is a luxury.
Aderaba, it is the shittah of others that certain schools should only cater to the “elite”. Why can’t the “elite” be those who pay in full, instead of those whose fathers are in Kollel, or don’t have any internet (even filtered), or parents weren’t Benei Niddah (something they can’t change about themselves)?
When I get on a homeschooling rant I’ll let you know 🙂
So if someone cannot afford full yeshiva tuition, they should send their kids to public school?
Lishitas the defenders of Lakewood elite schools, there are always new schools that are opening. Let the new schools take the rejects, whether they are those with filtered internet, working parents, or those who don’t pay in full.
However nowhere does it say one should not learn if you cant pay. There isnt any shitta ANYWHERE saying that
GAW -“Lishitas the defenders of Lakewood elite schools, there are always new schools that are opening. Let the new schools take the rejects, whether they are those with filtered internet, working parents, or those who don’t pay in full”
First of all, there aren’t enough place or schools. Second of all, no one would financially support such a school!
This actually happened, no one supported the Day School & it had to close down!
From above:
“There was once just the Cheder, Day School and then came YTT.
Ya’see more is not always better. All it did was create more Sinas Chinum!”
Why can’t the “elite” be those who pay in full
You mean like MO?
However nowhere does it say one should not learn if you cant pay. There isnt any shitta ANYWHERE saying that
Not certain of your point. They can go to non-elite schools that accept children with filtered internet.
Why can’t the “elite” be those who pay in full
You mean like MO?
Like those who patronize the new nut bar at Gourmet Glatt. (which reached me all the way here for the extravagant Gashmius now available in Lakewood). You think MO have the exclusive on extreme wealth?
If all of those other things can be a factor in admission, then yes, wealth can be one as well, if a school chose to do so. And no, they would not be supported by the community, nor would they need its support.
“So if someone cannot afford full yeshiva tuition, they should send their kids to public school?”
I would like to believe that no matter what neighborhood a person lived in anywhere in the world, if he was an ehrlicher yid who was forced by circumstances beyond his control to send his kids to public school, that the frum community would step up and make the appropriate arrangements.
That said. If public school is the only option, the person is living in the wrong city.
I am not referring to wealth, rather admission policies.
That said. If public school is the only option, the person is living in the wrong city.
Homeschooling :p
Seriously, the assumption of those who promote elite schools is that there are other schools available.
I am not referring to wealth, rather admission policies.
So? Let the admission policy include that to be considered for admission, you must prove you can pay in full.
Right. Like MO.
The problem is that those parents want their kids in the same class as the kids from klei kodesh families with no internet (and frankly, I don’t blame them for that), otherwise, they would have done what you suggest.
gavra: Elite schools only work in-town, where there are many yeshivas each catering to a different segment. OTOH, OOT where there is one or few yeshivas, there is no option of choosing another yeshiva.
Right. Like MO.
The problem is that those parents want their kids in the same class as the kids from klei kodesh families with no internet (and frankly, I don’t blame them for that), otherwise, they would have done what you suggest.
I don’t disagree (and wouldn’t call it a problem either). This is directed originally at Abba_S, who was concerned about affordability. As long as you admit admission policies can be used to guide a school to be “elite”, elite is determined by those who make the policies, and they can choose whatever criteria they want. Those who wish to be elite in other ways (a Yeshivish type school with strong academics is a good example) can (and have every right to) open up such a school if they so desire. Others (such as Rechnitz) have the right to support those schools or not as they desire.
gavra: Elite schools only work in-town, where there are many yeshivas each catering to a different segment. OTOH, OOT where there is one or few yeshivas, there is no option of choosing another yeshiva.
Lakewood IS “in town”. After all, they have a nut bar 🙂
Besides that I don’t see what your point is.
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