Rebbetzin Without A Rov?

Good question. Ask Frogette!!

Better said why do people overuse the term Rebbetzin, when someone says something like both you and yoour rebbitzen are invited, so I tell them I am not a Rebbeh and my wife is not a Rebbotzen I am a yid and my wife is a yiddeneh.

Wbat does a Rov mean. a shul, semicha or a talmid chacham? What if her father is/was a Rov?

It says גם ושתי המלכה and later it says ותמאן המלכה ושתי explains the Yaaros Devash that Achashverus said that you are a queen because of me and without me you are nothing. Vashti did not come, saying that you were a horse trainer to my father and you could not even afford wine whereas myself was a queen before you married me as my father was a king.

The above proves somewhat that she can be a Rebbetzin before getting married as Vashti argued that she was a queen before marrying Achashverus.

After some research the above quote is real. It is from the townspeople of Shedlitz about Rebbetzin Henna Cheyenna Anolick.

a rebitzin without her rav is nothing.

Besalel’s point has to do with each movement having to portray one way to their community and a different face to the other immunity. The women he mentioned give hashkafa/chaizzuk on the right, which is not much different than pulpit/pastoral roles on the left.

I’m aware that this could be pickled apart. But please give it an extra minute of thought. It is theoretically possible for one woman to do the same thing in two different communities, and it can result in two completely different titles.

Any observant group that has a disagreement with another observant group, will find the same disallowed cause in abundance within their own ranks. We just give it the appropriate label. And complain that a totally different community has different titles for a similar role or idea.

“The women he mentioned give hashkafa/chaizzuk on the right, which is not much different than pulpit/pastoral roles on the left. ”

Picked apart? Those are 2 completely different roles. Its like saying a school nurse is not much different than a doctor because they both apply bandaids to kids.

“Any observant group that has a disagreement with another observant group”

Second false premise. Which is why your comment and besalels are invalid.

If you wish to discuss your observation in a different context than that would be a seperate thought.

@ujm, how about just saying you and your wife or the two of you, I think its absurd when they call the truck drivers wife rebitzen.

The above proves somewhat that she can be a Rebbetzin before getting married as Vashti argued that she was a queen before marrying Achashverus.

Inapt comparison. The classic definition of a rebbetzin is a rav’s wife, but a queen does not have to be a king’s wife.

To answer the OP, it’s become common to use the term rebbtzin in a nonliteral way, e.g. “I am inviting you and your rebitzen to sheva brochos” (CS objected to that, but it doesn’t bother me, since the term rebbetzin doesn’t really have that much importance to me).

Using the term for a public speaker whose husband isn’t a rabbi sort of expands that.

Sorry. I just re-read it. It is still not written well. Let me get it off my mind. And I’ll try again some other day.

Please correct me if I error. Firstly the Shedlitzer was Rav Pam’s uncle. Secondly , in some Yeshivas ,the Rosh Yeshivista was more of an influence on the bachurim than the Rosh Yeshiva. Similarly in some Young Israel’s the Rabbanit was better in Gemara than the Rav because her yichus was greater even though the Rav finished shas at 17 in Brownsville. Anyone remember?

This thread illustrates my problem with the use of Yiddish. “Rebbetzin” is a fundamental word about an important part of Klal Yisrael and Yiddishkeit, but so many frum people disagree over its meaning. I will not even offer my understanding of the word, because I have no basis for believing my definition is correct, or even half correct.

The English language has no central authority that defines English words or even passes on what words are English and what words are not. There are a few respected dictionaries that take a prescriptive approach to defining English words, and a few other respected English dictionaries that take a descriptive approach. (I prefer the former, but that’s just me.)

The French language has an official board of big shots who pass upon what is French, what is not, and what the French words mean.

I don’t know who, if anyone, governs German, but I am sure it is orderly.

If Yiddish is to continue as an effective language, I think (as illustrated by this thread) it needs a central authority to govern what is and is not Yiddish, and what each word and phrase mean.

So, who wants to be on the board? And who wants to be on the board that appoints the board? And just to be clear, I am surely not qualified for either.

DY: It it fair to say that “rebbetzin” has simply become to (almost) be used as another way of saying “wife” or “Mrs.”?

Not in its more formal use, only in a light-hearted way.

@UJM
She practices almost exclusively in Federal Courts. She bills $750 at the District Court (trial) level, $1,000 at the Court of Appeals and $1500 if she has to appeal to the Supreme Court (she prefers not to go to DC, but has appeared a few times over the years).
Her speciality is Federal Labor Law and discrimination in the workplace.

apparently someone who doesn’t give classes can’t be a rebitzin.

I have semicha and my wife is not learned. She wasn’t raised frum, didn’t go to a seminary, but instead works with children and is a tzadeikes and eishes chayil. For that matter, how many of our grandmothers and alter bubbes went to seminaries and were pseudo-rabbis? Like my wife, they knew how to keep a kosher home. They taught the kids to be mentschen and to have good middos, and they were balabustes. They said tehillim, learned a Tzenah u’Renah, went to shul occasionally and that was about it. In many countries such as Morocco, they didn’t even read Hebrew. My wife wouldn’t be the best choice to give classes, and she wouldn’t want to. When I looked for a shidduch, I didn’t care about the ability to learn parshanim and whatnot. Who cares if a woman learns Ramban and Rashi? We all know the famous story with the 2 seminarians who went to see the Steipler, and he asked them if they knew hwo to make kugel. I think the emphasis on women learning has led to troubles and tzaros. The Satmar are right about this.

There is a massive misunderstanding when it comes to women stewing Torah. A hundred plus years ago, much of the teaching in yeshivos was done without sefarim. For a women to use a sefer was really uncommon. How many sefarim were available then? But every devout woman was interested in Torah and picked up as much as she could by listening in. Women went to the same Shabbos Hagodol Derasha as the men. But how much time did they have to give to acquiring more Torah?

Today, it is totally different. Women have much more time, and are far more literate. They will have many literary interests. There are numerous works that are crucial for Jews who will develop an organized worldview. So you allow for a woman to have any worldview she wants, except for a Torah one.

And now it reached the point, That when a gadol is speaking by a simcha, the men cannot follow along with his Torah thoughts. Because it does not pertain to the woman at all. And who could blame them? When they wanted to devote themselves to Torah, you barged in yelling “No! No!”

@always
Why was it wrong for her to laugh? She was at home with her husband, read the bulletin and laughed in amusement.
Should she have picked up the phone and given the shul president a piece of her mind for the nerve to publish this without asking her and getting permission? Do you know her schedule was in my open for class times?

Laughter was appropriate

Women wanting to learn torah like men is a major problem which has led to disasters for klal yisroel, chief among them, the rise of the open orthodox, which takes this unholy desire to its logical conclusion. Once you have women learning torah like men, they’re going to want to be rabbis like men. Even Rav Willig, shlita, from YU has admitted that allowing women to learn gemara is a mistake.

A woman’s Judaism is being a baalebuste. Caring for the kids. Lighting shabbos candles. Keeping taharas hamishpacha. Being mafrish challah. Cooking.

The idea that women need to be men and do what men do to be good Jews is what’s wrong with klal yisroel and is how we got open orthodoxy.

Dear Dov,

Okay. All Jews should be passionate for Judaism. And as long as Torah is the center of Judaism, Jewish woman are expected to be passionate about Torah. As sure as there were Jews in every generation, there were Jewesses that were completely devoted to Torah. Open, closed, sideways, orthodox, orthoprox, frum, or another way, it could only persevere when Torah is central and accessible to all of the community.

“A woman’s Judaism is being a balabusta”
Is there a source for this?
What about when she is too old or young to keep house?

“Caring for the kids.”
All Jews should be caring.
All humans should care for kids.
Almost all creatures care for their own young.
You must have meant something. Source?
And how is it more on women?
He a woman is in a place with no kids, is she still Jewish?

“Lighting candles.”
I am a man and I light candles.
Is that really all Shabbos is for women? The Torah stresses it as central to the mitzvos. And all you can thing of is something that is more or less reduced to a ritual.

How does a women keep her personal mitzvos – or any others, if she never learned how? Better question. Why should she think that keeping mitzvos is worthwhile? And how will she know what they mean?

Taking challah is the baker’s obligation. There is no reason for a woman to do it more than a man. I have done it many times.

Giving people a task list, is not the same as the giving of the Torah. We can make a whole list of mitzvos for men. But it is stupid to say that lending money without interest makes you a Jew. Or having a succah. Observance is about actions. Identity is not.

“Cooking”
?!?!?
It is a part of her Judaism for her to cook? Does she make a bracha? Many men cook. Source, please. This is just bizarre.

I have no ideas about women being like men or whatever. I do know, That you are asking for fakers when you say people in our community are not allowed to be involved in Torah but must be involved in the community. And nobody will listen to a gadol who only talks Torah since he is off limits to the majority, his statements are worth less. At this point, almost all stripes of orthodoxy has been affected. Or maybe infected. It is almost impossible to hear a pure Torah message that is not diluted to engage those in the community, who were turned off from Torah.

CTLawyer, I am not trying to criticize the learned lady, just trying to analyze the situation:
shul is giving her an honor to teach. Why refuse? More importantly, why laugh? I agree with Syag.

Teaching Torah should not be for people who are otherwise not employed. She should have taken on the challenge and bill them accordingly. Take them to beis din if they dont pay. Oops, this is probably not correct. If I learned it correctly, the beis din would have to come to the lady’s house instead of requiring her to show up.

This would have been a teachable moment for everyone!