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As far as actual damage is concerned, its very probable that humiliation and emotional abuse is much worse than corporal punishment; as far as the chances of some self righteous animal that is convinced that the entire frum world is abusive and we’re all covering up for each other deciding to ruin your life, its more likely with physical treatment. Don’t stake your hopes on the justice department, they are some of the sickest people you can imagine. Just like politicians with billions to spend lose sight of the value of peoples hard earned money in the face of their personal agendas, these people who are handed the reigns to a persons fate lose sight of the value of human life. As the minchas chinuch says, an executioner has the same value for life as a murderer, because he becomes desensitized, whether they are innocent or guilty.
Why is there an obsession with frum abuse in the secular media, in my opinion it is is like the new blood libel
Because they are desperate to say that G-d’s Chosen People are no better than the rest. It is just like Jews always being held to a higher standard, but it is worse, because they are blowing out of proportion an issue which is relatively uncommon in the frum world. I’m not chirping my head in the sand, but everyone agrees that it is less prevalent by us than by them. They ate trying to say that we’re really no better, we just cover up. Those has been going back thousands of years.
yayin yashan bkli chadash I heard it is self-hating jews, in the secular media that are pushing hard to promote this new blood libel, like NYT
Rema711, how can you say it’s a blood libel? Yes, they report on abuse in the frum community, but only when it’s actually happening. The blood libels were 100% false, usually made up by Christians as an excuse to attack Jews.
The usual reason abuse in the frum community gets reported on so much is because of the attempts to cover it up, and the rallying around the abuser.
I know of a few cases of abuse where it wasn’t covered up, and everyone cooperated with the police. Guess what? There was a small article about it once, and that was it. Never another word about it.
DaMoshe yes it is a blood libel do u see the media obess about any other community as they do the frum, case closed
I personally know of cases (I can’t give details because they’re not well known and the involved parties want it kept quiet) of supposed abuse that there was NO ONE pressing charges and the victim was still detained for a long time because they claimed people were covering up. They put on crazy pressure on thus person to plead, even though they both knew he was innocent, because they didn’t want to admit they kidnapped a person on NOTHING! The media loves these stories because they hate us. The average tabloid is toilet paper anyways.
DaMoshe yes it is a blood libel do u see the media obess about any other community as they do the frum, case closed
You obviously dont read the newspaper, they are constantly going after the Catholic church and Pope Benedict liklely resigned because of it. They are going after the catholic church hard.
I have ZERO tolerence for abuse
zahavasdad not the same way they go after the frum community, in comparison the catholic only get a slap on the wrist at the end cause of catholic might
yayin – based on experience I would seriously challenge the truth of your last post if this was a person-to-person conversation. What you have posted on this thread displays tremendous naivete (I’m being generous) or wishful thinking. Not that I don’t join you in that dream but the facts prove otherwise.
Exactly. They are disproportionately after religious groups to show that we’re not any holier. And much of the hype and resulting arrests are entirely fabricated, because now politicians are trying to show that they are cracking down. Activists in the community don’t want to get involved because they don’t want to add to the image of covering up for pedophiles. I was personally told this by leading rabbanim and askanim.
Rema711, let me explain to you what a blood libel was/is:
They mostly took place in Europe, although there were some in other areas. Christian residents wanted a reason to kill Jews. They would kill a Christian child (or take one who had died), and claim the Jews had killed it. They claimed it was done so the Jews could use the blood to make matzos with. This resulted in a mob which would usually go to the Jewish areas of the town/city, and begin butchering the Jews who lived there.
Obviously, Jews don’t use blood to make matzos, and they didn’t kill the child. So the entire story was fabricated. If you look up the definition of the word “libel”, you’ll see something like this:
“a published false statement that is damaging to a person’s reputation”
To say that constantly reporting on abuse in the Jewish community is a blood libel is not true. It may be biased reporting. It may be antisemitism (although I don’t believe it is). But it’s definitely not a libel.
If anything, the libel in the abuse cases is when many Jewish communities blame the victims, and claim they’re making up stories to get someone in trouble! That would be a libel. In fact, I believe that’s the reason it gets reported on so much. It’s not as much the abuse itself as the attempts to cover it up. They hold rallies to raise funds for the abuser. The victims are ostracized. That’s why so much is written about it. When there are cases where everyone cooperates, almost nothing is written about it.
syag lchochma it is a new blood libel that the media uses against us along with us abusing the poor Palestinians
The finger pointers are saying our communities are at least as bad, and probably worse sure to the fact you’re unlikely to get caught, than the rest of the world. Do you honestly think that’s true? I can’t tell you a real answer, and nobody can, because nobody knows the actual rates, being that it its not something announces on the radio after he does it; both in our community and in the world at large. I do, however, personally know of false cases.
Yayin – no idea who your response is directed at. You are 100% correct that the media would like to show that we are no holier but you are so wrong about the fabrication. And the saddest truth of all is that hearing it from leading rabbanim and askanim is no proof of any such fact. There may have been some fabrications, I don’t know so I couldn’t say, but the honest truth is that the politicians are still letting them free. They are NOT being arrested because the victims don’t want their houses burnt down. I appreciate your desire for it to be so but the facts speak otherwise. Are you speaking based on one or two friends? talk in shuls? word on the street? if you want to know whats really going on, speak to the survivors, their parents, the administrators who had to face the test of making choices.
(And I would not speak more globally than my daled amos, just as I have asked of others not to, if I was not genuinely in a position to do so)
While I BH do not personally know a anyone in this situation, I would be naive and like an ostrich to think it does not happen. R”L, too many children have not had their voices heard. The fact that people feel compelled to say it doesn’t happen in the frum world, is almost as troubling as the fact that the abuse occurs altogether.
Oomis, who said it doesn’t happen? The question is whether it’s represented as more common than it really is.
I am the last person to stick my head in the sand about this issue. I first became acquainted with it dealing with victims of abuse, so I am painfully aware that it goes on. All I am saying is that YES, we ARE better than the goyim. Unfortunately out is an issue that must be dealt with, but the witchhunt is out of proportion. We do have sick individuals, but 99% of the mechanchim who show affection to the children do it because they actually care about them, not because they are abusive. (I started a post expressing appreciation to these wonderful people.) Boruch hashem, we have a Torah, and mitzvos, and as a whole are earnest people striving to grow. We are more uplifted than the depraved world out there. The unfortunate fact is that it is incredibly easy to accuse someone about this and ruin his life, because there is no fair trial neither in the courts not in public opinion. People are scared top speak up on both sides of the issue. It certainly must be dealt with, but not with any preconceived prejudice either way. We should be proud of who we are!
Of course no one knows the true extent of the issue, because those that didn’t tell anyone didn’t tell anyone. I’m just trying to say not to lynch everyone in public opinion in the name of not sticking your head in the sand.
syag lchochma if u look at the catholic abuse case the majority of the time the priest doesn’t serve anytime, but when it is a Frum yid they push for him to
There are two separate but true points: 1) We are better than others in that our prevalence rate, while it exists, is notably better than the non-Jewish world and 2) There are multiple cases of false accusations of abuse being alleged against innocent teachers and others.
I don’t think that a rebbie who puts an arm around a young student should be looked at sideways for doing so. But if a child specifies certain actions as having taken place, it mandates thorough investigation at the very least. Legally, it may entail involving the authorities.
syag lchochma look at the MJ scandal were he was caught red handed but at the end of the day he got out Scott free, cause of his $$$
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