Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › Re Female Only Job Ads In Frum Community
- This topic has 32 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 5 months ago by ☕ DaasYochid ☕.
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June 15, 2011 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #597420BenKParticipant
As an unemployed father of 4 children I need to publicise my feelings wehen I often see job openings stating “Female preferred” of “Female Only”. Its hard enough in times as these to get jobs when non-Jews or non-religous Jews may keep out Frum Jews. But do Frum Jewish men now also need to dread Frum Jews who for some reason must only have Females? Are these “Tsadikim”? Why can’t Frum Men also be bookkeepers or do regular office work. And most of the time upon whom does the economic life of a family rest – not the men? So why should a young recent girl grad automatically be accepted and experienced skilled frum men should automatically be non grata? Is it really business sense or maybe Yaitser Hara? FOr both the desire to only have a lady around and for depriving a frum man from parnassah in these hard times because he’s not a women. Before “womsns suffrage” men were also secretaries. Equal Job Openings and Equal pay!
June 15, 2011 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #777524pumperMemberDon’t kid yourself
The reason they prefer females is so they can take advantage and pay them $10 an hour.
Show me an “experienced skilled frum man” who is willing to work for that amount of pay- not gonna happen
Are you, a father of 4, gonna work for that salary? if you are, there are plenty of jobs for you.
June 15, 2011 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #777525aries2756ParticipantPumper, that is true and in addition there is probably a female secretary in the office as well which would probably mean “Yichud” for the two of you. Jewish employers and not looking for problems and issues whether it means their pocket when it comes to salary and benefits or when it comes to halachic requirements.
June 15, 2011 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #777526blinkyParticipantI understand your predicament but you have to look at it both ways. Why are they asking for females? Is it because its an all girl office? Are they willing to train in someone new and inexperienced for less pay?
If its an office of girls would YOU want to be the odd man out (excuse the pun). In addition it can cause the female wokers there to be uncomfortable with a male colleague in their midst.
Also not necessarily is it easy for a graduate to find a job. When i was looking after hi school, most of the jobs that i applied for was looking for experience.
Hatzlacha finding a job.
June 15, 2011 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #777527BenKParticipantHi, if you notice in my post I ended it “equal job openings for equal pay” Furthermore in times as these many men would indeed agree to lower salaries. And on the other hand being a Shylock by only hiring Mexicans or women because they think they can pay less is also wrong in Halacha (gezeila) and by taking an opportunity for Frum men for parnassah for their family as well
June 15, 2011 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #777528ronrsrMemberAre we talking about the USA? That sort of ad is patently illegal here.
June 15, 2011 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #777530BenKParticipanta) I am talking USA (see Luach, JP, YN, etc
b) if I (or any man?) have a job we wouldn’t mind being the “odd man out” – I was for many years the “odd Jew out” as well.
Also for an all female office, why should that keep men from parnassah. In your streets do men and women walk on different streets or trains? Tachlis is Tachlis. Office is not a dating or social place – its a parnassah place.
June 15, 2011 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #777531BenKParticipanta) I am talking USA (see the female only ads in the Jewish classified sites and papers)
b) if I (or any man?) have a job we wouldn’t mind being the “odd man out” – I was for many years the “odd Jew out” as well.
Also for an all female office, why should that keep men from parnassah. In your streets do men and women walk on different streets or trains? Tachlis is Tachlis. Office is not a dating or social place – its a parnassah place.
June 15, 2011 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #777533cucumberMemberMany offices do have men. But what kind of salary are you intersted in- would you wrok for $12 an hour like many young inexpeinced girls are doing?
June 16, 2011 1:57 am at 1:57 am #777534BenKParticipantActually at this point yes, so I can get more experience at least (and money on the table)
June 16, 2011 1:58 am at 1:58 am #777535BenKParticipant(why do you know something – I live in Flatbush I’m a COPE Junior Accounting school alumni)
June 16, 2011 2:35 am at 2:35 am #777536hudiParticipantBenK – Are you looking for opportunities outside of flatbush? Maybe you should consider moving out of town.
June 16, 2011 3:00 am at 3:00 am #777537Pac-ManMemberThere are less jobs OOT than in NYC (generally speaking.)
June 16, 2011 3:33 am at 3:33 am #777538aries2756ParticipantWhy not post a “situation” wanted ad and see if anyone answers. Aside from that why not send your resume to all ads even if they “prefer” a female. If you are the most qualified they might reconsider.
June 16, 2011 3:34 am at 3:34 am #777539a maminParticipantSend your resume to ; ny.pcsjobs.org hopefully they will be able to help you.Have you contacted cope that you are looking again?
June 16, 2011 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #777541BenKParticipantI must say I am impressed and happy to see all the people here that are cncerned.
Coincidentally while I am from Flatbush I am open to jobs even in NJ or Monsey if need be.
I actually did post something on Luach as an experienced and skilled QB person and added that an employer would also gain by helping a family of 6 Yidden — would you believe not one email was sent to me (except 2 who thought it was a job ad)
I might in the end start answering “secy/bookkeeper ads” and see what happens.
Maybe Jewish Frum Organizations need to look at the sad Employment Crisis and Address the Issue that Especially in the Frum Word we need to end a Tendency in Many Office jobs to be “For WOmen Only” and start giving Parnassah Opportunities to All. If the Tsadikim want to see woman perhaps they can just stroll along the board walk (actually dont do that – just being sarcastic)
June 16, 2011 1:31 pm at 1:31 pm #777542gavra_at_workParticipantDY:
Good idea, but it is an outright exception.
As per the OP: I completely hear the idea of a full single gender workforce as part of a school (If that is the case), and it is probably legal (as the NYC law excludes single gender schools, as well as religious institutions).
June 16, 2011 3:04 pm at 3:04 pm #777544Mother in IsraelMemberI actually did post something on Luach as an experienced and skilled QB person
You’re a quarterback?!
June 16, 2011 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #777545Tzvi HirshMemberIf you ask the owner he will most likely say “business is business” as I have heard so often recently.
June 16, 2011 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #777546☕ DaasYochid ☕Participantgaw,
I see that my post (as well as the post I was responding to) was removed. My point was that if a company wants a female employee because of a legitimate tznius concern, it’s acceptable. I was also disturbed by the advocacy of mesirah.
June 16, 2011 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #777547TheGoqParticipantfrom the other thread from the same op
“In this real bad job crisis our organizations and leaders need to do what ever possible to save families on the brink.”
Why should men who have families get the job over a single man?
June 16, 2011 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #777548charliehallParticipantDY,
I am disturbed by YOUR advocacy of illegal activity, even in the face of evidence that a frum Jew is being harmed by it.
June 16, 2011 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #777549YW Moderator-80Memberadvocacy of mesirah
i would say advocacy, instigation, and facilitation of mesira
June 16, 2011 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #777550gavra_at_workParticipantMy point was that if a company wants a female employee because of a legitimate tznius concern, it’s acceptable.
But illegal (in most cases), and as such, unacceptable.
Tznius concerns do not allow me not to hire an African American, either.
June 16, 2011 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #777551Pac-ManMemberHilchos tznius (like all halachas) take precedence over EEOC regulations.
June 16, 2011 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #777552gavra_at_workParticipantJoe: I wouldn’t expect anything less from you, LOL.
Anyone else?
June 16, 2011 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #777554BenKParticipant(by QB I Meant QuickBooks)
June 16, 2011 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #777556a maminParticipantI think one of the main reasons women are getting hired more is the salary issue. The buinesses today just don’t want to pay that much! Seriously, you can’t apply for secretarial positions in most offices, but Book keeping is a possibility for both male and females.
June 16, 2011 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #777557veteranMembergaw- there are size exemptions to the EEOC laws. Small offices may be allowed to do this legally. Larger offices and businesses would be breaking the law unless there is a business reason to do so (e.g. your business provides surrogate mothers- men need not apply for that position).
June 16, 2011 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #777558gavra_at_workParticipantveteran: OK, I assumed there were additional exemptions.
June 16, 2011 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #777559a maminParticipantLook in the Jewish Press this week. There is an add for a male Book keeper.
June 16, 2011 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #777560cshapiroMemberGet ur cpa and open ur own practice…seems like u have plenty of free time now to study…
June 16, 2011 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #777561☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantI am disturbed by YOUR advocacy of illegal activity, even in the face of evidence that a frum Jew is being harmed by it.
I never said to break the law, I don’t know that anything illegal is being done. But even if it is, it’a assur to be moser. And why do you say that a frum Jew is being harmed,; they’re probably giving the job to a different frum Jew.
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