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Unfortuantly I know some , One of them has been one for about 5 years 🙁
She cant get one with her life
I knew one that waited 13 years for a Get
So there was an article with comments by Rabbi Dratch on JTA. It makes sense (though Rabbi Dratch does not quite speak for the whole of the RCA). This wasn’t about Geirus at all.
Basically, Avi Weiss gave the Rabbanut testimony that someone was Jewish. After speaking with some RCA members, the Rabbanut decided that Avi Weiss has no Ne’emanus on anything and cannot testify to someone’s Yahadus. That was what the RCA was against. They believe Avi Weiss is misguided but that he (as an individual) is still Kosher. This has nothing to do with YCT, Zev Farber, Shmuly Yanklowitz, or anyone else. It has to do with the reliability of Avi Weiss saying that someone was born Jewish.
I don’t know if this makes things better or worse, but we just need to clarify the exact case here.
Reform won not because laxiety, they won because of a disconnect between the Rabbanut and the Laiety. But instead of confronting those issues, they chose to ignore them and the people on the Margins just left.
Popa rejects the halachic definition of a kosher eid and he complains that someone ELSE isn’t Orthodox?
Since you claim YCT has spreasd everywhere, Please tell us how many “Bochrim” do they have.
This isn’t the nineteenth century, influence is not confined to Florsheims on the ground.
How many of their “Bochrim” or Rabbat’s have gotten actual pulpit positions.
The number is increasing rapidly.
Most MO shuls are afflied with either or both the OU and NCYI
MO shuls are not the only Jewish game in (out of) town.
The only people who are affectred by YCT are the people on the fridnges who are not going to BMG anyway.
I disagree.
About the Agunahs, Instead of condeming YCT, where is the Asifa for agunahs, Most of us know Agunahs. Come up with an answer instead of complaing. There are Asifas for all sorts of things. You can easily make one for Agunahs.
I absolutely agree with your charge to do something about it. What I don’t agree with is the strange idea you have that a person cannot simultaneously try to do something about a problem while finding another approach dangerous and wrong.
Suppose we have a kindergarten class where the children are clutching onto the toys and books and refusing to share with each other. A teacher decides to resolve this problem by permitting children to yank toys away from other children who are not sharing. If I disagree with the teacher, does that mean I don’t care about the lack of sharing in the class?
PBA: With all due respect, I don’t think you can call him Chashud AKol Hatorah Kula without either knowing him personally or citing somewhere in his writings where he denies an Ikkar Emunah.
There has been alot of effort and Asifas for Smartphones and The working issue, Where is ANY effort to engage the Olim in Agunahs.
Since the More charedi elements have done little or no effort, they surrended the space to Weiss and he has taken up the mantel. Instead of attacking him, they should grab the sword and take charge.
YCT’s is “increasing rapidly” and are influential. Please give HARD evidence to back up this claim and increasing rapidly does not mean the number of bochrim quadruplies from 5 to 20.
ZD: Unfortunately, talking about the Agunah issue would quite literally rip the Moetzes in America into at least two pieces, maybe more. The Agudah (just like any other multi-headed body) has to know when it is best to be quiet for the sake of its own survival.
End story? Railing against smartphones is non-controversial in the Charaidi world, which is why they can do it.
ZD,
Any asifa was put together by people who got involved and felt it was necessary.
Thus if you are so bent out of shape by this, it would be your duty to arrange. Why are you not doing it?
Always “yenem”. Be a man and get started arranging.
GAV and that is why Weiss takes the center stage and why the Moetzess instead of attacking the issue , attacks Weiss.
They are using YCT and Weiss to delfect from their own shortcomings
And when a “Psak” about a smartphone comes out, People just say The Gadol didnt really say that or he was misled or the questioner took words of Chizuk into Psak Halacha so they dont follow it anyway. If they went after Agunahs you could not have this vaugueness
ZD: IIRC R’ Weiss is not because of the Agunah issue (ORA already had that in hand). Its more due to the Rabbanits being created (which creates an interesting discussion if a Ger can get Semicha, but that is for a later time).
As far as the “psak” is concerned, I really don’t care what RCK says one way or the other. A Gadol B’Torah does not make one my posek. If it did, I would also have to follow the P’sakim of RSL.
🙂
That is why Chazal say “Asey L’cha Rav”, not Gadol, Gaon, or Talmid Chacham.
zahavasdad,
We have wandered far from the original point that brought me into this thread. You imply that since you are not personally impacted by the activities of the open orthodox movement and since they seem to be few in number, then people on this site are not affected by them and hence have no reason to discuss them. This is not true; posters in the CR including the OP have been affected.
I asked how you were impacted by an alleged bicycle ban in a Chassidish community so that you felt it worth opening a discussion; you didn’t answer, but I’ll assume that somehow you were affected other than through hearsay. If you can open a discussion about something affecting you, then why not any other poster?
BTW – One angle of approach to alleviate the tragedy of agunas is to strengthen marriages and reduce separations. I don’t have an opinion on the “smartphone” asifa, but given that unfettered access to the Internet opens a risk for falling into behaviors detrimental to marriages, it would seem likely that the organizers were partly motivated by a desire to reduce the tragedy of divorce, and by extension, agunas.
Also, I agree that more discussion and action are needed to resolve aguna issues, but the problem is a uniquely personal one, with wide differences case by case. Certainly there are universal changes that can be made, but the problem is quite complex, and there is considerable variance regarding what should be done. If you have good ideas, please by all means open threads about them and I’m sure spirited discussion will follow. Perhaps even moreso than bike bans.
Just because I dont Live directly in Williamsburg, doesnt mean I am not affected by what goes on there
One angle of approach to alleviate the tragedy of agunas is to strengthen marriages and reduce separations.”
I would agree 100% were it not for the fact that unfortunately in too many cases,though not all, the type of man who would refuse (as per halachic mandate) to give his wife a GET, is probably not the safest bet for strengthening that marriage.
Just because I dont Live directly in Williamsburg, doesnt mean I am not affected by what goes on there
As opposed to Riverdale.
Avi Weiss isnt even the Morah D’Asrah in Riverdale. Hebrew Institute of Riverdale is the smallest shul in Riverdale.
Rabbi Morderchai Willig (Sorry I forgot the name of his Shul) is the main Rabbi in Riverdale . I think even Yeshiva Telshe Alumni is bigger than Hebrew Institute of Riverdale
zahavasdad,
Hebrew Institute of Riverdale is the smallest shul in Riverdale.
I know I’m about to prove a variation of Godwin’s Law here, but … by your logic, since Al Qaida is one of the smallest groups in the Islamic world, they have little influence outside of their sphere and nobody should worry about them, right?
Just because there is one tiny insect called a termite that can do damage, doesnt mean all insects can destroy an entire building
oomis,
I would agree 100% were it not for the fact that unfortunately in too many cases,though not all, the type of man who would refuse (as per halachic mandate) to give his wife a GET, is probably not the safest bet for strengthening that marriage.
You make an excellent point. Clearly a fundamental part of creating good marriages is educating young women and men about taking time to watch out for potential warning signs of abusive tendencies. Gila Manolson has an excellent section about this in one of her books about dating.
Your foundation isnt as strong as you think it is, You would not be having so many OTDers and many other events like the warehouse Asifa that was cancelled if it was
“Hebrew Institute of Riverdale is the smallest shul in Riverdale.”
The Hebrew Institute of Riverdale is the second largest congregation in Riverdale. I think the dues paying membership of HIR is around 500 families, and a large fraction were brought to Torah personally by Rabbi Weiss. The Riverdale Jewish Center (R’Rosenblatt) is larger, but the Young Israel of Riverdale (R’Willig) is smaller, as are Young Israel Ohab Zedek of North Riverdale/Yonkers (R’Hain), Chabad, the Talner Shul, Torah V’Chessed Nanash (a.k.a. the Shteeble), Beth Aharon, and Kingsbridge Center of Israel. (As are the Conservative synagogue, and the two Reform synagogues.)
CH – Please don’t play us for fools. Avi weiss doesn’t come to the toenails of any Rabbonim in Riverdale and he wasn’t the greatest lamdin in RJJ either.
As far as the numbers game goes, you certainly know that there are many variables that make statistics lie; such as:
Even if we take HIR at their word concerning the 500 dues paying families; the size of an HIR family is far smaller than that of the Riverdale shuls and institutions you list. There are a lot of dues paying singles attached to HIR who are counted as families. And the percentage of shul attendance and learning at these other Riverdale shuls is far greater than the dues payers at HIR.
It’s not about Avi Weiss. It’s about the CR thinking they are the world leaders of Jewry. Avi Weiss was not the only North American rabbi disqualified under CR rules. All American rabbonim should be up in arms over the CR actions.
Truthsharer, CR or Rabbanut?
Chief Rabbinate. same thing.
Lol, I thought you meant coffee room. My bad.
Anyhow, I disagree. The Rabbanut needs to have standards, and certainly many people who call themselves rabbis, dressed in black and white, blue and white, or any other colors, are charlatans.
Rabbi Yitzchak Adlerstein has a piece about in in Cross-Currents.
Cherrybin,
I was not playing games or trying to fool anyone. HIR and RJC are both much larger than the other congregations in Riverdale, with RJC larger than HIR. None of the shuls have a lot of singles — Riverdale isn’t the Upper West Side. And the typical family size is around 3 or 4 kids per family all around. I never made any claims regarding the minyan attendance or amount of learning taking place; although you would be surprised at the large number of retired folks who attend the daytime classes at HIR, there is indeed far more learning at night at the YI and at RJC.
“does not legitimize Avi Weiss as a Rabbi”
YU has not revoked his semicha; in fact he taught there for three decades and left on good terms. That makes him a rabbi. He has never questioned any of Rambam’s ikkarim; he speaks regularly about the importance of following halachah, he professes belief in Torah Mi Sinai and the authority of the Rabbis to interpret it and bind us to those interpretations. And nobody has ever questioned his personal level of observance. Being a troublemaker does not make one a pasul eid, and that is what the mid-level bureaucrat (whose identity was just exposed) in the Chief Rabbi’s office tried to do.
DY
the problem is there is an assumption that if there is a MO Rabbi he is suspect until proven Kosher, but if he is a Charedi Rabbi he is Kosher until all evidence proves otherwise and even there , still has people who claim he is Kosher.
the problem is there is an assumption that if there is a MO Rabbi he is suspect until proven Kosher, but if he is a Charedi Rabbi he is Kosher until all evidence proves otherwise
How would you know?
I don’t like their anti-anonymity obsession
Who cares? They don’t ask for your driver’s license.
nor their their moderation policies
D’haynu?
Have you ever condemed a Charedi Rabbi and said maybe he shouldnt be a Rabbi?
Dont tell me they are all such Tzdekim?
Anyway, back to the RCA. How exactly did they side with apikorsim?
I perceive that they sometimes shut down very reasonably expressed opinions to the right of them, when they are trying to make orthodoxy appear moderate.
I can strongly confirm this having many times experienced exactly this.
Ask Switzerland. They might tutor you if you don’t know how.
PBA: In my experience, a “Rabbi” wearing a Kippah S’rugah is treated with contempt by more right-wing communities, regardless of level of knowledge or observance.
I am very close with a more “modern” Rabbi from an out-of-town community who was a massive Talmid Chacham. He was in Lakewood for a wedding and had a few free hours so he stopped by a Beis Medrash. He came to the wedding in tears. He said that the two hour he spent there (and how he was treated) almost made him give up hope for the future of Yiddishkeit. (He gave a few details of what happened.) So while ZD is silly because all generalizations are wrong, as a general rule I think we he said has merit. If you’re a “modern” Rabbi you’re assumed to be an Am Ha’aretz, even when proven otherwise.
Sam2: Some of my favorite memories are from when I go to Lakewood and proudly wear my kippah srugah. I was learning once in a shul on a Yom Tov between Mincha and Maariv, and someone asked if he could take one of the seforim I was using. Not just for a second, he wanted to take it away. I told him I was using it. He strongly implied I didn’t know how to learn because I didn’t have a black hat. I told him that was stupidity, and offered to talk in learning with him. I then proceeded to teach him a real lesson. At the end, he apologized to me.
PBA: Don’t be dense. Please. It’s unbecoming.
Ok, popa, but don’t you think we shouldn’t unnecessarily judge an individual based on generalizations? Is there a good practical reason to judge a Yid you see walking into a beis medrash as an am ha’retz based on his choice of head covering?
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