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There is this famous story about Rav Moshe tz”l inducing vomiting when he accidentally drank Chalav Stam. I would like to see if anybody has a source for this story. Some people say this story is false.
I heard from R” Nota Greenblatt that in Memphis R’ Moshe drank cholov stam “and at least in the next 6 hours or so didnt throw up, ich veis nisht vos hut geshen nuch dem”
I heard third hand that it happened.
And now you heard it fourth hand from an anonymous source on the internet.
Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.
–Abraham Lincoln
I do, but it’s not a written source.
I was there, and it wasn’t just any cholov stam. It was actually a famous cholov yisroel brand that insiders know is a sham. Witnesses I know have seen them slipping in milk from noncholov yisroel cows.
What kind of “source” are you looking for? Something in the Igros Moshe recounting the maaisa?
How about someone who witnessed it?
This story is true.
Do a Google search or, better yet, ask Rav Belsky shlit”a.
Jewish Thinker
My family is. Ive asked him before he said he doubted it was true.
Jewish Thinker
It was about 5-6 years ago on Purim, in his apartment
Only in the coffeeroom can you find a Yekke who makes jokes that can actually make a person laugh.
start with the obvious.
(A) There’s no reason to vomit after drinking cholov stam. (B) R’ Moshe Feinstein was renowned for his genius and didn’t do stupid things. (A+B=C) R’ Moshe didn’t vomit after drinking cholov stam milk.
Who said the vomiting was voluntary? The idea that he mistakenly consumed non-CY may have been revolting to him.
If true, the story says a heck of a lot more about Chalav HaCompanies being muttar than Assur.
i have a hard time believing he threw it up. R moshe himself writes in a teshuva that whiskey blenders could be problematic so he refrains from drinking whiskey with a blender inside when not in public. cholov stam is lichoirah less problematic.
No the story is that he induced vomiting–it could be that the milk was curdled and then his doctor told him curdled milk isn’t healthy so he made himself regurgitate.
Sam, I’m not sure why, but anyhow, we don’t need a story to say it’s muttar; we have his teshuvos.
Toi, your “lichoira” is lichoira wrong. He writes that he drank blended whiskey in public, but didn’t say that about c”s.
stop paskening based on gedolim stories, the notion that you can do that is utterly ridiculous
Hockonarock, you spelled udderly wrong.
Jewish Thinker:
I would like to know details, when it happened and where.
ubiquitin:
It was about 5-6 years ago on Purim, in his apartment
🙂
Sam2:
If true, the story says a heck of a lot more about Chalav HaCompanies being muttar than Assur.
Jewish Thinker:
Sam2-Do you mind explaining yourself?
Second the motion.
Toi:
R’ Moshe himself writes in a teshuva that whiskey blenders could be problematic so he refrains from drinking whiskey with a blender inside when not in public. cholov stam is lichoirah less problematic.
DaasYochid:
Toi, your “lichoira” is lichoira wrong. He writes that he drank
blended whiskey in public, but didn’t say that about c”s.
Why should he have to, DaasYochid? He wrote to be mattir it,
not that he thought it might be a problem.
DaasYochid, why would he write that about cholov stam?
Ditto, yekke2.
What, that he kept it? Because he was encouraging people to keep it if they could.
“start with the obvious.
(A) There’s no reason to vomit after drinking cholov stam. (B) R’ Moshe Feinstein was renowned for his genius and didn’t do stupid things. (A+B=C) R’ Moshe didn’t vomit after drinking cholov stam milk. “
just saying that there is a spiritual effect that eating not kosher has on a person. im not saying that C”S is non-kosher, just that it might be comparable to one whos does not eat C”S.
i cant remember the source for my original statement, so i understand if you don’t hold by it, but it definitely came from a vaild source.
If I may be so bold as to say ??? in Sam2…
???? ?????? ?????
It is inconceivable that ???”? would allow ????”? ??”? to eat something which is not absolutely ???.
??? ?????.
Catch yourself, what’s the chiddush if he drank it by mistake? He held it was muttar. Unless when you say “absolutely ???” you mean with no reason whatsoever to be machmir, but that’s k’neged what he wrote in a number of teshuvos.
Catch Yourself (al pi Sam2),
in that case, I suppose that goes for the whiskey as well?
actually they say a story that rav Moshe was somewhere and he picked up a bottle of milk and put it down so someone asked him why he didnt drink it and he said that the bottle was empty!
@ DY – No chiddushim, just explaining Sam2 (??? ????? ?????). I think Sam2 was not proving that ?? ??? held it is muttar; this hardly needs to be proven. My takeaway from his post was that this story, like so many others, is used by many people to prove a point, when in fact the story undermines that very point.
@ Comlink-X – Yes, I suppose it would. Any ???? ??????.
Could I have heard that story about orange juice rather than milk?
catch yourself
maybe catch yourself before talking like that about one of the greatest gidolim!
@IHLH – no doubt (and so it is said) an ugly rumor started that Rav Moshe does not hold of company X…completely ignoring that he picked up the bottle in the first place!
In a similar vein, I heard from Rav Aharon Felder zt”l, arguably Rav Moshe’s closest talmid (perhaps after Rav Bluth), who was present when this occurred:
Rav Moshe was known to be super makpid about his matzos. At a bris once on chol hamoed Pesach, the young Rav Reuven approached his father during the seudas mitzvah and said quietly (in Yiddish, of course), “these are not our matzos,” to which Rav Moshe replied, “if I don’t eat, people will say that it’s chometz!”
My takeaway from his post was that this story, like so many others, is used by many people to prove a point, when in fact the story undermines that very point.
What point do you think people try to make from the story and how does the story actually undermine this point?
DY – The people who have told me this story have always used it to show that Rav Moshe “really held” that chalav stam is assur. The story refutes this because if that were true, it would have been impossible for him to drink it even by mistake because ??? ???”? ???? ???? ???.
That said, I think the real moral of the story (if it is true) is about the incredible sensitivity he had to something which he held should not be consumed by a baal nefesh, as per Joseph (Lior), et al.
IHLH – I’m not sure what you thought I meant. Chas V’Shalom, I did not intend anything other than the greatest respect for Rav Moshe. Let me be clear. My point was that since Rav Moshe is obviously included in “??????”, it is inconceivable that he would have consumed something that was not kosher according to his own opinion.
If you want to refute people who think Rav Moshe held it was assur, just show them the teshuvos. They’re a much better raya than a diyuk from a story.
Hashta Behemtan…
Someone asked R’ Dovid shlit”a how could he asser NYC water – his father drank it! He answered, “If he knew there were bugs in it, he wouldn’t have drunk it”.
Sam2 – ???? ???????
DY – Agreed. The only reason to discuss the story is the irony.
Rav Moshe’s grandson told me the story never happened and is not true.
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