Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › Rashi Biography and the Heart of Darkness
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June 18, 2013 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #609710YusselParticipant
I recently read the biography of Rashi by Yaakov Shulman. In one of the chapters, he tells the story of a divorce and it seems to me that the tale makes use of the story “heart of darkness” by Joseph Conrad. The parallels are just too obvious to miss, at least I think they are.
Has anybody else out there read that book and had the same impression?
June 18, 2013 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #960276jewishfeminist02MemberI am not familiar with the book, but the underlying implication of plagiarism– whether true or not– is a serious one.
Think carefully before you spread rumors about this author, especially on an online forum where you have no idea who may come across your post.
June 18, 2013 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #960277zahavasdadParticipantI didnt read the either book, however the reality is there is very litle personal information about Rashi or any of the Rishonim and even the Achronim until very modern times
Since there isnt much personal information (In fact we dont even know in many cases how many or even the names of their children)
Because there is a dearth of real information, most books about them use poetic license.
June 18, 2013 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #960278rebdonielMemberIf you want to read a good biography of Rashi, I’d suggest Avraham Grossman’s superb text, although he ventures more into social and cultural influences on Rashi’s thought. This book is more of an intellectual biography of Rashi, and is even part of the University of Chicago doctoral bibliography in Jewish Studies (for whatever it’s worth on a forum such as this). I would take most CIS books with a grain of salt, as there is probably no effort to produce books that are well-cited, academic, or peer-reviewed. Just look at the whole fiasco with R’ Nosson Dovid Rabinowich’s “Talmudic Methodology” book, which ended up being his plaigarizing Reform Rabbi Moses Mielziner’s “Talmudic Terminology.” Funny how Hakham Ovadia Yosef ended up giving a haskama to a book written by a Reform Rabbi.
June 18, 2013 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #960279Torah613TorahParticipantI read this biography and remember no such thing (And I’ve read Heart of Darkness too.)
June 18, 2013 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #960280squeakParticipantI havent read this biography but I have heard of Rashi before. Therefore, I am more than a little bit baffled at what comparisons could have been drawn from the fabulous literary work by Conrad. Rashi’s commentary may well be fondly called kurtz and sharf, but even Kurtz wasn’t kurtz. Can you give us an example?
Moreso, I find it extremely unlikely that a frum author could capture anything from it at all without copying the actual text word for word.
June 18, 2013 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #960281nishtdayngesheftParticipantZd,
Yet you and your ilk insist that Rashi’s daughters wore tefillin.
Talk about fictional license.
June 18, 2013 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #960282rebdonielMemberI never saw any conclusive historical proof or evidence that Rashi’s daughters wore tefillin.
The Gemara does say that Mihal bat Shaul haMelekh wore tefillin and that the hakhamim didn’t object (Eruvin 96a). Amazes me how so many people nowadays object to the Gemara’s psak, “Nashim somhot reshut,” that women can perform mitzvot from which they are patur).
June 18, 2013 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #960283zahavasdadParticipantYet you and your ilk insist that Rashi’s daughters wore tefillin.
Yeah the talking fish told me they wore tefillin
June 19, 2013 7:07 am at 7:07 am #960284Sam2ParticipantRD: Maybe because they learn Tosfos there and don’t take the Gemara’s statements out of context when they don’t understand the entire Shakla V’tarya…
June 19, 2013 10:24 am at 10:24 am #960285nishtdayngesheftParticipantIt’s because the fish had a better vocabulary than you with your secular college education, that you so misunderstood what he said.
Or just because the fish is so much smarter and you could not keep up.
Both are certainly true.
June 19, 2013 12:27 pm at 12:27 pm #960286YusselParticipantI know my idea sounds odd but consider the following:
1. The character in the Rashi biography is Curt and in Conrad it’s Kurtz.
2. The Rashi character, Curt, has a plan to bring benefit to the Jewish People and improve their situation, just as Kurtz did in Heart of Darkness.
3. The Rashi character, Curt, writes a pamphlet in which he outlines his plans to save the Jewish People, in a clear, well-written script, but at then end, writes something about death in a scrawl. The Conrad character, Kurtz, writes a pamphlet outlining how he will bring civilization and “light” to the people of Africa, in a neat handwriting, but ends it in a scrawl where he writes “exterminate all the brutes”.
4. Rashi’s character Curt is tall and gaunt, almost skeletal-like and so is Kurtz in Heart of Darkness.
5. THe person telling the story in the Rashi book is met, on his way to see Curt, by a Russian dressed in a wild outfit who tells him how great Curt is. Conrads character, Marlow, is also met by a Russian who tells him about how great Kurtz is.
These things jumped out at me when I read the Rashi book. I don’t think this is co-incidence.
June 19, 2013 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #960287mddMemberNishtdayngesheft(Joe), I heard about the Rashi’s daughters from a certain Rosh Yeshivah.
June 19, 2013 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #960288Torah613TorahParticipantWe have two people now, who have read both books, and don’t see the issue.
Most likely there are similar elements, which wouldn’t be surprising since oral history and fiction are easily interpolated. Many story telling biographies have some elements that you could find in other literary works. In my opinion, that is appropriate for this sort of work, and does not mean that he was copying from another work.
June 19, 2013 11:34 pm at 11:34 pm #960289squeakParticipantEvery one of those similarities are superficial, so even if they are intentional it means nothing. For exampl, number 2, Kurtz was drunk on his deity status, his plan was for himself only. If the author of Rashi borrowed on the plan, he failed to understand theme of the novel which is dichotomy and contrast.
We ought to have a book club thread to discuss worthwhile books. Maybe I will award credits to posters demonstrating sufficient reading comprehension.
June 20, 2013 12:27 am at 12:27 am #960290June 20, 2013 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #960291squeakParticipantOOM…. I didn’t say entertaining books. That of course would include TP.
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