Random Questions

PY, Please. Don’t fardray the heilige Chofetz Chaim. According to your krum logic, the MB permits tight clothing so long it is below the knee. Slits are assur; if you do it anyways, at least don’t try to be matir chazar.

What do you think about bugaboo carriages..the whole world is walking around with these not normally expensive carriages in very color! I think its nuts!

Re: Mrs. Beautiful

They are really practical and light very easy to fold. The world isn’t madly into something without a reason take that as a Klal…

The total lack of tznius today is a terrible machla on us. We need to do a lot to alleviate this tznius crisis. Anything towards that goal, is highly commendable.

It really irks me to no end when people dont understand that there are varying halachic opinions on many sources.

So yes, you hold that slits are not ok, but I hold they are (per my halachic source). No one should be decrying “How terrible is tznius these days that someone holds by a different psak” which is basically what many of you are saying.

Eyesopen – I hate to break this to you, but we all wear the clothing of the goyim. Yes, many of the styles sold in Jewish stores have been Jewified (AKA sleeves longer, collar higher, skirt longer) but they are ALL the styles of non Jews. Men wear the suit styles of non Jews. Chasidim wear the fashions of 18th century Polish royalt (AKA non Jews).

If you really think this is terrible, please return to the proper attire that we wore in the desert – that includes sandals.

Nobody – I don’t need an excuse to wear a slit because I don’t hold that its wrong to wear one. If someone is trying to excuse it, it means they think its wrong and are trying to convince themselves.

As for wearing a shorter skirt if you need a slit – in the winter, I prefer to wear long skirts because its cold. I generally wear tights underneath, but frequently need a slit in the skirt to be able to walk comfortably. Not a problem for me, because my Rabbi doesnt hold its assur. If you hold its assur, please do not wear a slit. You would be violating your psak.

I know a rabbi who paskens you can drive to shul on Shabbos if you live to far. Live and let live. I hope SJS agrees to live with varying halachic opinions and would not be against all of this rabbis congregants driving to shul on Shabbos. Right SJS?

… as driving to shul on shabbos invovles transgressing a number melachos doraisa that are mentioned bfeirish

were as wearing a slit below the knee is not uncovering any erva and is only held to be ossur by some because THEY HOLD it is to flashy,

it is an opinion not a fact,

you obviosly hold by your rov’s opinion wich is fine, but if another rov has a diffrent opinion then your rov there is nothing wrong with somone holding like that rov.

“I know a rabbi who paskens you can drive to shul on Shabbos if you live to far. Live and let live. I hope SJS agrees to live with varying halachic opinions and would not be against all of this rabbis congregants driving to shul on Shabbos. “

You lessen the impact and credibility of your point when you make a statement like this. How do you compare mamesh Chillul Shabbos, unquestionable, Chillul Shabbos, with a fashion style? Show me in the Torah where there is an halacha (not merely an opinion, one of many) specifically prohibiting slit skirts (and the reasons for same), and I will never wear one again, bli neder. I can show you several places in the Torah from which we derive that riding to Shul on Shabbos would be absolutely assur.

nottalmr

my point was just that the rabbonim who hold it is ossur only hold this because of there OPINION that it is to flashy.

if another person and there rov dont have this opinion (that it is to flashy) there is no reason for them to listen to it at all as it IS JUST AN OPINION not a fact(unless they are in a town were MOST people are of that opinion.)

Two Rabbis are stranded on a desert island. 24 hours later they have three different opinions on……………………………………………………..everything!!

Jokes aside, as with everything, everyone must go to the Rov they feel comfortable with. Some people will specially go a specific Rov knowing he is lenient in an area they want him to be. Good luck to them.

100 posts down the line we’ll get nowhere. Those who say they are allowed to wear slits, on, below or above the knee for all I care, will continue to quote Rabbonim from here to kingdom come.

Tzippi, it’s not only the knee – a slit at the back anywhere near the knee rides abve the knee. So it’s not just about sitting, but standing, walking etc.

But to be honest- leave me out of the argument. Let everyone do what they think is right, I’m really not bothered. It’s their problem at the end of the day.

The point is not to be flashy, and slits are! It is so easy to make a kickpleat there is really no excuse for a slit. Someone told me that her usband is reallt unobservant but one thing he said that he really finds flashy is slingback shoes. Especially when the tight are a different color than the shoe. I can really understand that. Woman dont have as many Mitzvos as men, lets keep ours sacred.

Reading through this thread, my head is spinning.

Short skirt, no good. Long skirt, no good.(confusing)

Slit, no good. (but what if skirt is too tight to walk in?)

Cap sleeves with shirt worn under, no good. (that one truly baffles me)

Slingback shoes, no good. (?)

…did I miss anything…

Jewess, there is no shortage of beautiful and modest clothing out there. It really depends where u shop and who u r trying to impress. There is no doubt about it that the way u dress is a reflection of who u r and who u aspire to be inside.

SJSinNYC,

It irks you that people consider your standards to be horribly untziusdig while you consider it to be perfectly fine. Please realize that no one sees themselves. Someone who is used to a very tzniusdig way of dressing, ia “irked” wgeb seeubg people dressed in a much lower standard. Instead of being bothered that people do not agree with your way of doing things, maybe look up to them and think of some goals to eventually reach. You are very set in your ways and don’t seem to think that there is anything in your life that can be changed. I know that there are things I do/don’t do that some people would look down on but on the other hand, I know I am not perfect and am on this world to grow. I may never reach their level but at least I don’t look down on it. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe you do realize that you have potential to grow but at least don’t look at other people’s criticism as “narrow-mindned”. Not accepting a higher standard is also “narrow-minded” in my opinion.

Please don’t take this as a personal attack. I am just expressing my opinion about what you said. I hope I didn’t come across as offensive.

Intellegent, I have no problem with people being more machmir. I respect their desire to become more strict with their observance. However, when they preach about certain things being 100% assur, when they are NOT, but just held by a more machmir group – that irks me. Also, looking down on me for being not tzanua irks me – I may not have the standards YOU do, but that doesnt mean my standards are not halachically acceptable.

I had a teacher in 8th grade (a very impressionable time in my life) who used to yell at us that long skirts were 100% assur. She also yelled at me for wearing ankle bracelets under my tights. She would assur everything that didnt fit into her narrow view of Judaism, even if most other people held differently.

It really took me four years of high school to understand how she went wrong. Unfortuantely, this is a problem plaguing the Jewish community today – we assur things that are mutar, and then kids get fed up and do actual assurim because they really dont understand the difference. If everything is assur, kids wont want to keep anything. One of the beautiful things about Judaism is that there is rarely one right answer. But when we teach that there is only one, we lose a lot of understanding of the Torah.

As for Joseph’s comment – there is a BIG difference between varying halachic psaks vs something that is 100% assur. So yes, my rabbi might hold differently than yours, but its still within the valid lanes of halacha. Being mechalel shabbos is totally different.

I dont condone anyone driving to shul on shabbos, but if they did, I would hope it was because they were trying to get closer to Judaism. And maybe driving to shul (since they would be doing other mechalel shabbos things during the day anyway) will bring them closer to true Torah judaism.

Mrs Beautiful – the problem is, everything like “slingbacks” is subjective. My coworker told me he loves to walk through Boro Park (he lives nearby) because he finds the idea of a woman completely covered very enticing – it leads to him wondering about whats underneath. He also told me that he loves knowing their hair is covered because he imagines the hair is solely for him. So, do we make women wear less because of him? NO! He is just creepy. Everyone has their own vices, but that doesnt mean all women should stop because of it. I dont even think my husband would know WHAT slingbacks are.

Mrs. Beautiful, the business about flashy is exactly the point. Many people would say that shortening the skirt to get rid of the slit (as someone suggested) is 100 times more flashy and far worse from a tznius point of view. We really need to leave our opinions out and follow what the halacha says, which is that the knee and above must be covered at all times. Anything else is a pure invention of the person making the statement, reflecting his or her own personal fashion tastes. We simply cannot have halacha based on subjective opinions.

My daughter once brought home a camp list saying that the zipper or the pockets were forbidden or had to be only in the front or only in the back, and I don’t even remember which way now, since it was so arbitrary. I actually aggravated my daughter telling her some of her skirts were improper, and should now ask mechila, since after researching the matter, there was nothing wrong. It was just a figment of the camp director’s imagination.

Same thing with my son’s clothing guide for yeshiva saying that bobby pins were forbidden. I firmly believe that if we would put in half as much energy into following real halachos as into imaginary ones, moshiach would have come already.

jewishfeminist02-

Shabbos is one of the most precious commodities we have.

Its value exceeds what the richest person on earth posesses.

For Bill Gates’s entire fortune – wealth beyond his wildest dreams for himself and future generations – the average Shomer Shabbos Jew would not strike a single match on Shabbos.

We unfortunately can’t change the world, and few of us are talented and dedicated enough to influence even a single person, but we must never be blase or accepting of chilul Shabbos.

The other issues discussed here are pittances compared to Shabbos. If not for a single instance of chilul Shabbos in the midbar, Moshiach would have been here thousands of years ago.

It is in many cases good to be open-minded, libertarian, and see things from others’ perspective. Shabbos is not one of them. Realizing that we can’t change people who are mechalel Shabbos doesn’t mean that we should accept with equanimity their chilul Shabbos.

I consider my self very sensitive to nuances of tznius, but I don’t understand why there is an issue with short sleeves over long sleeves (assuming the long sleeves are not too tight). Why is this different than wearing a vest over a long sleeve shirt? Can someone please enlighten me?

in regard to the tznuius thread, read the book “oz vhadar levusha.” Its a little machmir but you’ll get a clearer picture of why certain clothes should not be worn. I wear most types of clothes out there but as far as slits go, I see on my friends’ skirts when they wear slits on short skirts, guys get extremely attracted to it, probably when their upper leg keeps flashing through, and girls really need to be aware of what they are causing when they wear these skirts.

with cap sleeves, they are halachically tznius and thats mostly what you’ll find in department stores. I think it’s beautiful when you can instantly recognize a jewish girl when she makes sure to wear a long sleeved shell under something that is otherwise not tznuis

Intellegent,

my point was very simple,

YOU cannot decide wich rabbis can be relied on.

you can only decide wich ones you wish to follow (wich is only an opinion you happen to have).

my reasons for beleiving in g-d in general and in judaisim in particular are irrelevent to this conversation.

Yeshivishmom, In tzinues there is alot of extra things that you do because u feel right about it, which is why it is so hard to answer those people who say “where does it say…” Most of my friends wear short sleeves over long sleeves, it is not only a t-shirt look but they make very nice shabbos tops and suite jackets as well. I dont know in seminary I just felt something about it, I didnt feel like a bas melech, it is a look and I just didnt think I felt like malchus in it. So I gave away all my short sleeve tops, it is hard because most of the stores sell pretty things, but lifes all aobut struggle.

A teacher of mine told us she sees a bigger problem with slingbacks than high heels, so it all depends on you and how you feel about that matter. But always try to highten and raise your sensativities.

I think that cap sleeves is not only a tznius issue, but also an issue of Chukas HaGoy

I heards that the Rabbanim spoke quite strongly against cap sleeves by the Lakewood Tznius Asifa.

Let us see if we can work out a compromise here. We must agree that there is nothing wrong with any garment that covers the required halachic areas. There may be other reasons why a person would or should wear better clothes. For instance, I never wear blue jeans or shorts , since I don’t think it is bkovodig. However, there is certainly no halachic reason why blue jeans should not be worn.

Instead of calling these issues tznius, which they are not, maybe they should go under another name. I have no clue what cap sleeves are or what slingback shoes are. Nevertheless, if a person feels demeaning when wearing them, then by all means don’t. If you want a higher level of professionalism, then wear better clothes. However, do not look down at people who follow halacha. Do not look down at people who do not follow halacha either. I have very good friends who do wear jeans and shorts. To each his own.

If a woman wants to wear short sleeves over long sleeves, then why not? If she feels it is too casual, or makes her feel silly, and she has a responsible position, or even just for her personal tastes, then don’t. However, let us not drag tznius into this, as it is strictly a matter of taste.