Rabbi Yehuda Levin – Open Discussion

I don’t go to concerts and my wife has sheitels with hechsherim. The band fall she was given and did not know its origin she destroyed.

You can tell a lot about someone from when he chooses to play the “gedolim don’t know what they are saying card”

There is a “renouned” “Rabbi” who often tells his “talmidim” the following “If R’ Elyashiv tells you not to go to Phoenix, AZ to do kiruv, don’t listen! He does not know you. He does not know kiruv, and he does not know Phoenix, AZ).

Good to know Kiruv is in the hands of those who reject Da’as Torah!

R. Levin’s contention was by the Corzine voting issue in NJ and the John Heyer voting issue in Willi, that the gedolim were misled as to the underlying facts that were used to render a decision. That is similar to what Moq is describing regarding the Indian sheitel situation.

My point is to remain consistent. Truthfully I am troubled anytime, including here, that it is contended that the gedolim were misled. Troubled by those making such a contention. And I was similarly troubled by those making that contention by the Indian sheitel issue and the Lipa concert. The fact remains that in both those cases the gedolim issued a declaration it was assur — and NEVER retracted. If in fact they were misled as to the underlying facts leading to the decision, they would make public — just as they had the prohibition — that it was based on faulty underlying info. They hadn’t by neither the sheitels or concerts. So yes, I’m troubled by this contention too on this issue.

Health, How exactly did I prove I was wrong?

Since when do you look at the result as a proof?

A Gadol says something (actually here a number of them), people chose that they had more da’as torah then the gedolim. And since the majority chose they know more than R’ Shteinman (or that R’ Shteinman was misled) therefore that is a proof that it was true?

That is like saying that the miraglim were right cause the majority of people sided with them ofer Yehoshua and Calev.

Health-

If you saying things because of Neiyus, you are no Gadol. Shalom, perhaps. But again, that a rather convienient mechanism to escape anything a Gadol said.

Ben Torah-

By Shaitel’s, the psak was quietly retracted after the real metzius was known; Shearis Yisrael made a list which included almost every brand of shaitel that had never seen the indeed of a Temple.

And again, did Levin call R’ Aharon Lieb? Did he try to find out what he said or knew? The access is there, certainly he’s nudnick enough to do it. Nope. He was sure of his position, and if R’ Aharon Lieb disagreed, duh, he was misled. Which of course is disrespectful to say about R’ Malkiel (you may respectfully disagree with R’ Malkiel; but you may not say that he intentionally misled R’ Aharon Leib). He wasn’t asking anyone.

Is there a problem with the process from Daas Torah to the public, very often it’s used as a mechanism to listen to Daas Baaley Batim.

Moq: That is your contention. I know of no source the psak of Rav Elyashev was ever retracted. Please present it. Even reading FMF’s above comments seems to indicate his wife abides by Rav Elashev’s original shaitel psak. The idea Rav Elyashev “quietly retracted” comes across as a way out of abiding by the psak. What about the Lipa (and others) concert? Was Rav Elyashev and the other gedolim’s decree thereof forbidding it also “quietly retracted”? Or are we still forbidden from attending such concerts? (FMF is consistent on this point, as he said he avoids the concerts and shaitels. But others are picking which psak gedolim they like.)

This is l’toeles. A man has publicly spoken words in the name of the Torah, we wish to say that these are not the words of the Torah, and should not be listened to, nor should others vote based on his words, nor listen to his views, nor see them as consistent as daas Torah. That his words are destructive, and people should not listen to him, and think that Gedoley Yisrael – were fooled (R’ Yakov Perlow, R’ Moshe Wolfson, R’ Aharon Leib Shteinmann).

I wish to reaffirm real Daas Torah, and not Daas Baaley Baatim which he espouses.

It is necessary and important. It is obviously Toeles. One cannot be mevazeh Gedoley Yisrael and expect others to be silent about it under the guise of lashon hara. The internet is an important forum, as yeshiva world has proved again and again by influencing significant elections via it’s viewers

And others are trying to defend him, which is certainly permitted.

Morever, everything he has said and done is b’apey telasah (The machlokes Rishonim is only in front on three people , but in front of thousands all agree).

If your own Haskafah doesn’t like it, you don’t need to take part. But please, before you accuse others of an issur (which your curiously retracted) perhaps base it in Halacha.

R’ Aharon Leib hasn’t touched his beard for fifty years on shabbos.

The way it was presented on the Shearis list was that R’ Elyashiv ruled that the avodah zara hair was indeed forbidden, but none of our hair ultimately comes from avodah zara. My wife’s shaitel – thankfully – was on the list, and it’s life was sparred.

As far as concerts, I would certainly not attend. I lost A good $150 when the Fried/Maimi Boy choir concert was banned – my wife very much wanted to go. But Daas Torah is Daas Torah.

FMcF & Moq -You’re right, I don’t know why Rav Shteinman said what he did -maybe he was misled. It’s irrevelant -most of Lakewood didn’t listen. So since you think most of Lakewood are Mevazeh Talmeidi Chachmim -you show the world how crum and wrong you are. Also, if Rav Levin went out and told people not to vote, he is at least better than most of Lakewood who voted for Christie. Shev v’al tasseh odif!

Helpful – by Badatz Shearis Yisrael; they are a respected Beis Din & Hasgocha in Bney Brak, relied on by almost everyone. It was founded by R’ Schach z”tl.

Also, R’ Yisrael Belsky and many American Rabbonim disagreed with the entire psak, even if the hair was from an Indian temple.

As far as that specific Race – the Rabbonim of Lakewood made the decision to disagree with R’ Malkiel & R’ Aharon Leib , which they are perfectly entitled to do. Respectful, even passionate debate is fine. But they – are Talmidey Chachamim; they possess Daas Torah. Daas Torah may argue on Daas Torah. They have creds.

And not listening to Daas Torah is a nisayon we all have; screaming from the rooftops (and on TV) is a whole new category.

And health, to quote a certain intelligent frum politician, I will not join you in the gutter either. If your direction at this point are personal attacks, I don’t think we have more to discuss. Which is convenient, hence you can chalk up a victory when facts fail you.

But, as Yehudah Levin has learned the hard, ultimately, you just end looking silly, and the intelligent calm people end up making decisions that effect our lives, and you end up on TV.

Cheers!

Unfortunately this business of crooked askanim is very common. I don’t know the details of this specific case, but I know how things work here – E”Y. One should always try to clarify as many issues as possible for himself.