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Your thoughts?
What’s the purpose of this thread? Mindless lashon hara? Will anything said here make a difference anywhere? Shut it down.
While I agree that pro- alternative lifestyle (I can’t bring myself to print the word in the CR) is a bad thing, I don’t think R’ Levin should be speaking to the press. He does not “represent” all Orthodoxy, yet the media presents him as such.
At best, statements like this should come from Agudah, and be directed to us. A low public profile on this issue would serve us better. We can vote as we please.
he’s may be a Talmid of R’ Avigdor Miller but doesnt have the thought clarity of the gadol so is misguided.
why on earth is this thread mutar?
Whether one agrees with his approach or message, he is a person who stands up for what he believes in. Because he is not supported financially by big-name askanim, he is able to express his opinions without fear of a financial backlash.
He will not go against the Torah core beliefs about what actions are abonimable simply because $$$$ is dangled in front of his face. Other organizations claim to follow Daas Torah, but make fundraisers for openly gay candidates because $$$$ is at stake. Let those organizations rely on those abominable candidates for support. They have openly flaunted the Torah and can’t expect Siyata Dishmaya or support from the Torah observant community. Daas Torah is not consulted and they merely rubber stamp the wishes of the askanim. Any claims to the contrary by organizational leadership is patently false.
TzefatView
So that everyone should know that Mr Levin does not represent Orthodoxy. He represents himself and nobody else. The sheer magnitude of the Chillul Hashem he made is mind boggling. As if we Jews don’t get enough bad press he had to make us all look like bigoted haters. He should join the Westboro Baptist Church. His views on gays are probably more extreme then theirs!
BP Totty:
As I tried to explain above, the Agudah is nogeiah bedavar. They received funny money from Quinn and their askanim have endorsed Schneiderman. The Jewish Schneiderman who advertises on VosIzNeias is openly gay, and is one of Albany’s ‘loudest and proudest’ voices to change the definition of marriage. Yet, Agudah and the askanim support these two unchlikt’s. They are therefore not the voice of Orthodox values.
Agudah is not above reproach. They are a lay organization. Criticism of Agudah, aside from having been often done by Rabbonim, is not a criticism of the Rabbonim affiliated with Agudah, but rather a criticism of the lay leadership of Agudah. (And, no, the lay leaders of Agudah do NOT necessarily ask the Moetzei for approval of every press release they issue or everything they otherwise do.)
I don’ think this is mindless loshon hora. Its the political process, and R’ Levin thrust us (meaning all orthodoxy) into a spotlight we really don’t need.
Perhaps if some of the opinions stated here (not just this thread) get noticed by the talking heads, they might think twice before making statements in our name.
Threads brought up for open discussion about a single person rarely lead to any good.
The Wolf
until now all threads about him were positive it’s important for the above reasons mentioned to let the majority speak.
he’s a clown.
Artchill
The difference between Agudah and Levin is that Agudah thinks big picture and what’s best for the klal. Levin only knows one pasuk in chumash and that’s all he goes on about. He doesn’t care about the fact the our community has needs and we should vote for whoever will help the community the most.
Voting for someone who is pro gay marriage doesn’t mean we agree with all their views, politicians know its rare that any voter will agree with all your views, they know you vote because you think overall this person will benefit me, my community, neighborhood….more.
The Agudah and Stamar Rebbe and others need to do what’s best for the community and that comes first.
Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not chas vshalom condoning the gay lifestyle its assur and a a toievah, but it doesn’t say anywhere its assur to vote for someone who is pro gay marriage or is ga.
WIY: His views on gays are probably more extreme then theirs!
The Torah’s views are even more extreme. As in execution. Death. Stoning. Rabbi Levin hasn’t been calling for that, so perhaps he can be properly characterized as not extreme enough on this issue.
I agree with everything artchill said above. Orthodox Jewry needs a public spokesman of Rabbi Levin’s caliber. Unafraid of speaking the emes. Even if that means stepping on people’s toes. And even if it is unpopular in certain segments of the population. And even if it doesn’t help him win any popularity contests. And even when the emes is rough.
I recall a story of some godol who accepted money from the tziyonim for his Yeshiva. There were protesters outside protesting this. His talmidim told him how wrong it was for them to be mevaze him and the Yeshiva by protesting. He answered his talmidim, that while it is a necessary evil for him to take the money, he is glad the protesters are protesting because it isn’t 100% correct, and if the’re weren’t any protests outside, he would have to hire protesters himself to protest taking that money!
We need Rabbi Levin.
Next Chol Hamoed concert:
Rabbi Yehuda Levin joins Lipa and Bello the Clown for an amazing evening of kosher entertainment at Madison Square Garden. MC: Yisroel Dovid Weiss
And I’m off, so Saygec Arosz, Bacsi
People read the NY Times and see him on CNN. They then look here to see if we support this individual or if we don’t.
There is legitimate toeles in our speaking negatively about this individual.
A Yid does not “shout from the roofops” to go after other yidden. Ends don’t justify the means. R’ Chaim Shmuelovitz on Parshas Pinchas teaches us that if Pinchos’ actions were not 100% l’shem shamayim and done properly, he would have been chayav misa, even though he would have still gotten the halacha correct.
The Agudah objects in a frum newspaper whose contents are not available online. He replies on public radio with a link for all frum, frei and gentile to listen to him.
His actions speak louder than his words. He should be ignored. I beseech YWN to stop posting “news” about him.
WellInformedYid- “The sheer magnitude of the Chillul Hashem he made is mind boggling…”
Let me explain you what chillul Hashem is -doing an aveirah in front of Jews. Rabbi Levin has not done that. While the supporters of anti-torah lifestyles -financially and politically is an aveirah. You can’t say what do you care if they sin, it’s not my business. You can say this if you have nothing to do with them(as long as they aren’t Jews). If you give them money or vote for them -it’s called “Messeyah l’day aveirah”.
Myfriend
Any person so obsessed with this one cause and no other is obviously misguided. If he cares about Sheva Mitzvos make it about Sheva Mitzvos Bnei Noach. But he doesn’t!!!! He couldn’t care less about idolatry, adultery or any of the others. He just obsesses over homosexuality, and blames all the worlds ills on it and makes all kinds of threats. He does not act like a sane healthy human being. There is something really wrong there and I won’t make accusations but it certainly raises suspicions about him. I really don’t think he does it lishmah, he’s just a massive homophobe and needs attention. People who do things Lishma for the sake of Hashem and his Torah don’t act this way. No Gadol acts this way. No chashuv Rav acts this way. No sane person acts this way.
WIY: Another mistake is you seem to think that because reporters only let you know this issue, that others aren’t addressed by him. They are. He has addressed a variety of issues, you just didn’t hear about it obviously. The Torah is also “homophobic”. What’s the Torah’s penalty for that activity?
WellInformedYid -How do you know he doesn’t care about the others? Dan him l’caf zecus. All these other aveiros those people aren’t looking for legitmacy from our gov. The toeiva community are looking to have legitimate legal status in this country right now.
Health
Its a pretty darn big Chillul Hashem to
1. Allow some non Jewish politician to read off a speech you wrote which undermines our present Gedolim and says that they are manipulated as though they don’t have a mind of their own
2. To act like you represent all of Orthodox Judaism and present us as hateful intolerant bigots.
Do you know that Levin says that terrorist attacks happen because of gays?! He’s out to lunch with the Westboro crowd.
WIY: What is the prescribed penalty of our Holy Torah for this activity that you fear we are presented as “hateful intolerant bigots” of?
i am very confused here…his approach may be a bit unrefined, however that is the only claim one could possibly have against rabbi levin. you find the anti homosexual distasteful? ah well…the torah would disagree. we ARE homophobic (bigots is a relative term). very homophobic. we detest homosexuality. we look upon it as an abomination. we see it’s acceptance in world culture as an absolute travesty. now…where do you disagree with levin?
on the subject of homophobic, that is an incorrect term. we do not fear them. we detest them.
Since I’ve been living in E’Y for quite along time, and we have enough of our own politics here, I am unfamiliar with him.
May I ask a simple question. Does he have support from any prominent Rabbonim-Gedolim, and does he have opposition from any prominent Rabbonim-Gedolim?
wiy, i really dont get you. on another thread you were an apologist for immorality, saying a guy can hide his former immoral ways from his kallah. and here you are supporting immorality again, apologizing for the toeivaniks! we really need 10 rabbi levin’s.
Artchill –
I know that Augudah has to be careful about the way they say things. That’s politics. And lay leadership needs to tread carefully, if we are to be the beneficiaries of public money (which we sorely need)
That said, I;m certain 99% of the CR readership will agree with what R’ Levin said.
But he did not need to say it on the public record. It makes us look bad. Just like the poor showing we had at the Baptist protest earlier this week. And when I say we, I mean the folks in attendance with a yarmulka, beacuse that’s who the media considers “we”.
The court of public opinion is very strict today. It would be wise of us to avoid undue negative attention. My family / friends know where I stand on issues like this. But I do not need to broadcast it across America. We (meaning the Orthodox) are a drop in the population bucket; we need not make this much noise.
That’s what the poll booth is for.
So let me get this straight? It isnt lashon hara because its not mindless? In otherwords its for a to’eles? Doesnt toeles have to lead to probable (or at least highly likely) change in metzios?
I know – im not a chinyuk, so how dare i challenge you tzadikai kinayim? After all, its well known that halachos do not apply to kinayim.
I am impressed that kinayim are so certain in their view, that they accept on their broad shoulders the responsibility of being over lashon hara
I must join my local chinyuk club, it seems to be an exciting and superior religion.
Hardly. And in the arena of internal politics (say, shul, school or the State of Israel) we should be very vocal.
What I’m saying here has nothing to do with R’ Levin’s personal opinions. But I do take issue with him dragging ME into the process. Do we need to know what politicans stand for? Of course we do. But we do NOT need bad media
WIY, your first point bothers me, too. Your second point, though, not really, or not that much. The Gemara says that the reason the nations are still around is because they don’t sell human flesh in the meat market and they don’t write a Kesuba for this garbage. In other words, this is the bottom. It is in fact the worst thing.
Until recently, I didn’t have much of an opinion about his actions. It was a little weird that he his on his own and rails against the leaders of today’s Jewry. This recent thing of having an outsider read off a derogatory speech about Rebbes and Rabbanim is just way too far.
BP Totty:
Sorry!!
Agudath Israel of America claims to the POLITICAL ESTABLISHMENT that they represent Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Jewish values and are led by and follow the words of the great rabbinic leaders.
Therefore…
For Agudath Israel of America’s President and other members of their Executive Board to fundraise for Christine Quinn (an open alternative lifestyle advocate and of practice) is to say that ORTHODOXY condones and supports such behaviors. Behaviors that the Torah says are abominable. ORTHODOX JUDAISM does NOT condone abominable behaviors, Agudath Israel of America might, but this is not what practicing, religious, Orthodox Jews practice.
Rabbi Levin’s statement highlighted to the world that Agudath Israel of America represents a fringe element of Orthodox Judaism, and not chas veshalom all of Orthodoxy.
Rabbi Levin’s words WERE TOO TRUE, they hit Agudath Israel in the face hard. This is the only reason Zweibel released a statement against Rabbi Levin.
OK, getting hot in the CR.
Does he have the current support of a single Gadol? Any Talmid Chacham of note? Somebody? Anybody?
Is he a Talmid Chacham? Anybody ever heard a psak from him? An actual shiur about bava metziah?
What are his credentials? I don’t care what may have been said about him by people who are no longer with us.
And if he stands alone, by what credentials? Maran Rav Schach briefly stood alone – but he was one of the world’s greatest talmidey chachamim, and Rosh Yeshivah of Poneveich.
He has no legitimacy. And he destroys it, every time he stands in public. He speaks like a politician. His views are ridiculous. His tactics are childish.
This loon has his own youtube channel! Is this a leader?
Again, does anybody stand with him – TODAY? Right now, say ” Yehudah Levin speaks for me, for us?”. No one! No one!
Missme
You probably didn’t do well on reading comprehension in grade school. You take me out of context time and time again. I won’t waste my time defending myself against your distortions of my views. Say what you want.
artchill he is the fringe Agudah is the mainstream.
Moq: I don’t know about the events of the past few days, but Hagoan HaRav Moshe Shterbuch shlita, ?? ??? ??? on the Badatz Eidah Chareidus asked Rav Levin to protest in Yerushlayim against the toeiva parade. So he definitely has been around.
Rav Sternbuch is a great man, but I doubt he asked Levin to fly to Eretz Yisrael to protest. They have plenty of protesters, trust me. Perhaps Levin flew in and got involved in his favorite past time. He may have even spoken to Rav Sternbuch; does that make his positions in the least bit valid or endorsed by Daas Torah?
Something!
However, has Rav Sternbuch endorsed Yehudah Levin in any way? Something public? A letter? Stand behind his organization? Hearsay doesn’t count; Rabbonim make it very clear who speaks for them – and even then it’s complicated (Agudah/Lakewood Vaad etc.) ! Even then it’s a gesheft; here, no one has given even the smallest signature. No one! Just a rumor about Rav Sternbuch about a protest in Eretz Yisrael – about gays! Maybe he could have helped Shemiras Shabbos? Or Kiruv? What else does this guy do for Khal Yisrael – not for fundamentalist christians, Khal Yisrael ! – other then shray in their name about Toeva! Who is he? What is he?
You build credibility when you actually do other things; Ribono D’Alma Kula – have you ever heard his name involved in ANYTHING other then politics? Even the Agudah has a whole bunch of things going on other then washington. Politics! Not just politics, but his only issue – you can sell yeshivas to timbuktu, chuck ever voucher in the book – just publicly say you hate gay people and he’s yours.
Don’t you think a Gadol should make that decision – that Khal Yisrael should have a single issue? Have they? Good, let it be a machlokes – between who and who? Live people are the only ones that count. That is how Daas Torah and Halacha work. You need to be breathing to cast a vote. It’s great to quote dead gedolim, do whatever you want in their name – because, guess what, they’re dead and can’t say “oy, are you brain damaged?” as opposed to living Daas Torah.
Who gave him his ballot? Manhigus is given, never taken.
And look how he acts! Look how he talks! Al Sharpton would be embarrassed (well, maybe not)! This is a Torah leader – in the mantle of Rav! “Asasuni Kinor Sh’Managim Bo Letzim”
There is a posuk in the Torah, true. But there is Shas, Poskim, Shulchan Aruch – interpeted by the greats of the day, Where does that entire his equation?
Again, who backs him? Who says – “this man speaks the word of the Torah”? Who? And if you don’t have that behind you, you have no right to speak for Torah Jewry! Especially in his vernacular, Lo Alenu!
Now it occurs to me that perhaps I am old fashioned. Perhaps people do not care about shas & poskim through the lense of true daas torah- they want some one who “speaks the truth” – that is, the truth how they feel it in their own – shas and poskimless – boich. If that is true, then perhaps…they deserve him. V’Oy Lanu!
And yes, the “establishment” certainly must do some soul searching, because the fact that he even has the slightest maamad means we are not getting the true message out, or have strayed from our own truth.
But Yidden, if we still care about Daas Torah – which governs WHAT to say, to WHOM to say it, WHEN to say it – not “speaks from the gut” – since when it that a Torah concept? We speak from the brain! – what do we have with a man with barely even Daas – never mind Daas Torah! Speaking the truth when it is not to be spoken – is SHEKER!
WellInformedYid –
“1. Allow some non Jewish politician to read off a speech you wrote which undermines our present Gedolim and says that they are manipulated as though they don’t have a mind of their own”
First of all who paskened for you that you don’t have to Dan Rav Levin L’caf Zecus? It’s a fact there have been many Gedolim that have been manipulated. I can give you one example -within the last couple a years a molester was just fired from his teaching (Rebbe) position. But yet- this took twenty years. Don’t you think perhaps some Gedolim/Rabbonim were manipulated? I don’t know if this is the case here, but before you speak bad about Rav Levin, shouldn’t you find out why he claims this?
“2. To act like you represent all of Orthodox Judaism and present us as hateful intolerant bigots.”
He claims he represents Torah, not some political org. that is affiliated with Orthodox Jews. So far, I haven’t heard him say something that the Torah doesn’t agree with. The Torah requires us to be “hateful intolerant bigots”, in regards to these people with alternative lifestyles, just we aren’t capable of doling out punishment.
“Do you know that Levin says that terrorist attacks happen because of gays?!”
Who says he wrong? I would add -and all the rest of aveiros that are done by everyone, including Jews & Goyim!
Hagoan HaRav Moshe Shterbuch shlita attributed the failure of Israel’s campaign in Lebanon on “the homosexuals’ obscenity and promiscuity in the Holy Land” and saying “we have not protested enough against this parade of abomination, and therefore we have received this warning.”
“His views are ridiculous. His tactics are childish.”
his views are the views of the torah. all those of you opposed to him keep trotting this out. please bring one example where he is directly against the torah. being vehemently anti gay is not against the torah.
“This loon has his own youtube channel! Is this a leader?”
and you’re on youtube enough to know this…what does that make you? having a youtube channel means absolutely nothing, and as far as i can tell there is nothing wrong with having a youtube channel. by the way, everyone with a google account has a youtube channel, and everyone has a google account.
“Rav Sternbuch is a great man, but I doubt he asked Levin to fly to Eretz Yisrael to protest. They have plenty of protesters, trust me. Perhaps Levin flew in and got involved in his favorite past time. He may have even spoken to Rav Sternbuch; does that make his positions in the least bit valid or endorsed by Daas Torah?
Something!”
once again i am confused…WHAT. HAS. HE. DONE. THAT. IS. AGAINST. THE. TORAH?!? for heaven’s sake! GIVE US A CREDIBLE EXAMPLE!!! you sit there bashing someone because he makes you feel uncomfortable, but that is no reason to bash him. what has he done that would warrant gedolim speaking out against him?
“what else does this guy do for Khal Yisrael – not for fundamentalist christians, Khal Yisrael ! – other then shray in their name about Toeva!”
other than shray in their name about toeva…i am STILL not seeing a problem in shraying against gays…i really am not. i mean the torah is vehemently opposed to homosexuality…please explain the problem…
“Do you know that Levin says that terrorist attacks happen because of gays?!”
that is the only objectionable thing i have seen cited against him. i have not sen a source for that…but if he said that then he indeed did go too far. it is not his place and he cannot know that. some of his tactics may indeed need refining but his premise is spot on, and i still see no problems with what he is doing.
Moq:
Agudath Israel of America joining the Archdiocese of New York to protect the rights of pedophiles to molest is a far greater Chillul Hashem than anything that Carl Paladino could have possibly uttered. This was Daas Baalei Batim who twisted the hands of the hands of the Moetzes with threats, until they caved in.
The Moetzes Gedolei Torah do NOT make psakim. Agudath Israel of America’s board members decide what to do, and torment the Moetzes into towing their line. Hence, Agudath Israel of America has no standing to scream about Daas Torah. Chaim Dovid and George might have nice smiles, but Daas Torah they are not!
Agudath Israel of America IS a political organization. The peripherals are all nice. BUT, does making a Siyum HaShas once every seven years, running a few camps, and a few other minor services, justify their existence??
If vouchers for yeshivas come as a result of REFORMING the Torah, Torah will cease to exist in America. HaKezona Yaaseh Es Achoseinu? Does Agudath Israel of America have to prostitute themselves to alternative lifestyle advocates in order to receive their money they seek in the name of Torah Judaism?
In a nutshell, Agudath Israel of America represents a MINORITY view of Orthodox Jewry and are actively REFORMING the Torah to fit the days events. The “Askanim” bully the Moetzes to tow their line, but the Moetzes members when asked privately explain the story in more depth, have an entirely different thing to say than the Daas Torah press release.
The Gedolim of past never allowed anyone to vote for someone who had hashkofos so contradictory to a Torahdika lifestyle. It is said that someone went into Rav Yaakov Kamenetzky with this shaila, Vote for someone who is an anti-semite but for decent values or vote for someone who can help the community financially but has no family values? And he said vote in the anti-semite.
And that is just voting. Not making parlor meetings for these coooks.
And don’t think that we as a community don’t really care about this issue. If someone has a 501c3 organazation (like all our mosdos, chassidus and aguda do) and they will not hire a mishkav zachar they will be able to get sued big time. Schools will be required to hire xxx amount of mishkav zachar teachers to teach the lifestyle.
Levin is right in making this a major issue. Is the way he is doing this right? I don’t think so. But niether are people who only see dollar signs in a candidate. Are you willing to sell your hashkofos for your fancy lifestyle? Before we see what we can gain from voting in a candidate we should check out his hashkofos thoroughly.
One point at a time
“once again i am confused…WHAT. HAS. HE. DONE. THAT. IS. AGAINST. THE. TORAH?!? for heaven’s sake! GIVE US A CREDIBLE EXAMPLE!!!”
Tell me, is this a gray area or not? The question of – should we back a winner and have access to the Govenor’s mansion or back a loser on moral principles and have nothing – that is not a gray area? That is a question, a question effecting the lives of thousands. Who decided that for him? And if he’s wrong – and I don’t care if you say he is or isn’t, I want Daas Torah to decide! – then he is harming thousands of Jews.
Is it a question if we should make our platform single issue, and lose access to a vast number of politicians whom could help our community, but we become a pariah to them because of their liberal viewpoints – is the answer obvious? Or does it require Daas Torah?
If Cuomo gets in – could Levine ask him to help out a yid? Which isn’t a problem, because Levine only has one track of askanus – homos! – so he have to worry about other issues.
Is it a question if we should scream at press conferences and reporters, screaming over and over again how we hate the toevia community – which of course we do! we also hate amalek! but if amalek is in power, it may not be wise to scream about him! – are we hurting or helping the interest of our community? Which is the truth? I don’t know. I want a real posek to decide.
Of course the torah is clear about Toevia, and that is the emes. But is it emes to scream it from the rooftops? Is it emes to say that we have a mitzvas asey dorayasah to shatter the brains of amaleki baby? Should we make sure all the goyim know about it?
Should we call a press conference about it? Blast the new Jewish supreme court justice because she doesn’t believe in killing cute snuggly amaleki babies? Tell CNN? Endorse Adolf Hitler because he likes killing babies?
And is so obvious that he should have a goy publicly humiliate real Talmidey Chachamim – is that obvious? Or is it at least a major question of an Issur D’Orayasah?
Is it at least a question?
Who decided it?
Yehudah Levin?
Who’s he to decide anything?
The torah also says to kill cute, smiling amaleki babies, smash their brains on a rock and be joyous! The Torah commands us to wipe out the entire nation of Canaan, because they are a bad influence!
Should we call a press conference about it? Make it’s acknowledgment a prerequisite to our support?
And money is plenty important. We are struggling as yechidim and as a Khal – which is more important – declaring our point, or funding our mosdos – and remember, our entire future is our yeshivos and bais yakovs; that is Khal Yisrael. Is it so obvious that it’s not even a question?
Yes, there are real questions and issues.
So this is the litmus test when one is deciding real issues that effect our community – safekim – is HE a bearer of Daas Torah – or does he have a bearer of Daas Torah supporting him? If the answer is No…then he has no legitimacy, and we as a community need to spit him out , and make it clear – not in my name!
Artchill-
The Litmus test for askanus is if it has daas torah backing it or not. If the agudah doesn’t mean this standard, then they too are irrelevant. At least they pretend (I find it hard to believe that R’ Shmuel Kamenetsky , R’ Aharon Feldman, R’ Dovid Feinstien are lemmels who are intimidated by scary askanim. And to accuse them of such implies they are senile, drooling old men who can’t see the new reform movement R’ Gedaliah is scandalously intimidating upon them. I think that’s drivel from blogistan.)
But that’s irrelevant, we’re talking about Levine.
Incidentally, going with the Archdiocese was important; no statue of limitations would have meant digging up the dirty laundry of the last forty years, real and imagined. We need new enforcement with merciless teeth – on abusers and institution, but with a reasonable statue of limitations. But this is not my point. I don’t care what the agudah is or isn’t. What is he?
Who is he?
What are HIS creds. True, he’s not intimidating anyone, because he’s not asking. Remember, live people count, not dead ones. “If he would have been alive he would have said ….” is a cute mechanism is make sure you can do whatever you want – because “he would have agreed with me”.
And Tireh Zaideh, we going according to each generation’s daas torah; it’s the only way to deal with each generation (or ask them what they mean!). Do you have a point? Definitely. A real shaala? Yes. Can we debate it? Certainly.
And are we speaking of fancy livestyles? We’re talking about hot lunches in yeshivas, busing for Bais Yakov, vouchers for NY families with eight kids struggling under eight tuition.
And we’re also talking about backing winners, no matter who they are, so that we can actually help our community when they are in need.
A question; definitely. Obvious? Definitely not. Who makes the difficult, difficult, gut wrenching, call?
Yehudah Levine? What are his creds? Zilch.
Daas Torah does.
He doesn’t have it.
It doesn’t support him.
He speaks from his Daas Boich. V’Daas Baaleh Batim Hepech Daas Torah. And he speaks loudly. If you can’t sing well, sing loud.
Not in my name!
Moq, its clear R. Levin had Daas Torah on his previous endeavors. Why don’t you call him — he is listed — and ask him who supports him on this endeavor. It only happened this week. Who are you to insinuate he lacks it?
And who is YOUR Daas Torah to publicly criticize a Rov? I don’t care what you think of him or not. You are demanding HE produce to your satisfaction creds, what are YOURS? Who authorized you to publicly, on a blog, criticize HIM?
What are Moq’s creds? Can we see it in writing? Who is your Daas Torah?
what BT said. in response to your amalek argument, hypothetically speaking if it came down to that then yes, it would be a big issue. it would not be practical to shout it from the rooftops but not because it is politically incorrect. it would be wrong because that would pose a real danger in terms of pikuach nefesh to jews. people would start killing us for our statements and as a preemptive measure.
gay rights however threatens the lives of no one, at least not in the jewish community. we do have freedom of speech, we can say what we want. sucking up to a candidate who will pervert the morals of our state and by extension the country simply because we want some money, which incidentally could be had if people left kolel, is absolutely disgusting. it is flattering a rasha and assur.
what i said about kolel, i do not want to change the direction of this thread, but to be perfectly honest if you absolutely cannot support your family, then it is your achrayos to get a job if you can.
Bomb-
B’Seder Gamur, so what you are saying is that what’s his doing is pashut. I think it’s not, that it’s dangerous, and that I want Daas Torah to decide. I see think both sides. And when someone decides a serious issue without consulting the wise, I think he’s an idiot. I think he is on par with the biryonim – totally sure of what Hashem wants, and destroying Yerushalyim in the process, because they never asked the Sanhedrin.
You think it’s pashut that what he is doing and saying is right, and hence, don’t feel a need to ask Daas Torah. It’s even Pashut to be mevazeh Talmidey Chachamim who disagree.
Well, that is where we stand. That’s why I call him a crock, and you call him a Tzaddik.
Can’t give you an Elu V’Elu, but that pretty much sums it up.
please give me an example of being mevazeh a talmid chacham
please give me an example of being mevazeh a talmid chacham :
R’ Shteinman says one thing: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=41515
Levin says he could not have said it, implying R’ Shteinman does not know what he is talking about (and thus could not have said what he actually said and wrote)
Or his similar statements via puppetladino about R’ Wolfson & R’ Perlow.
FMF: Do you take the same position about those that say the gedolim were misinformed about Indian sheitels or concerts (i.e. Lipa, etc.)?
Do you maintain that those who makes such claims (that the gedolim were misinformed about such issues — sheitels, concerts, et al) are being mevaze the gedolim, and that we must in fact boycott Indian sheitels and the concerts in question per the decisions of the gedolim?
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