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Rabbi Steven Pruzansky said:
“The IDF [Israeli Army] soldier fulfills three mitzvot
that cannot be fulfilled by the soldier in any other army:[1] the settlement (Yishuv) of Eretz Yisrael,
[2] preserving Jewish life (Pikuach Nefesh),
[3] and Kiddush HaShem, the sanctification of G-d’s Name
implicit in the Jewish people exercising sovereignty over our homeland.”SOURCE: Ask the Rabbi, Part 22 by Rabbi Steven Pruzansky 2023 August 18
Rabbi Steven Pruzansky is an Orthodox Rabbi who made aliyah to Eretz Yisrael from the USA.
He was a lawyer, before becoming the Rabbi of Congregation Bnai Yeshurun in Teaneck.The Israeli army and the whole Zionist enterprise is the biggest chillul Hashem that exists in the world today
Lookup Rav Gershon Ribner’s website, where he has a 6.5 minute shiur: Awareness of the rishus of a Zionist and his hate for Charedim.
>>>Awareness of the rishus of a Zionist and his hate for Charedim.
How do you define Zionist?
I’ve heard and seen enough of those type of shiurim in life to know that a secular Israeli could just as easily give a lecture called “Awareness of the evils of a Charedi and his hatred towards us.”
>>>The Israeli army and the whole Zionist enterprise is the biggest chillul Hashem that exists in the world today
Do you really believe this? Do you think the Reform movement (which is mostly anti-Zionist these days) and openly preaches fighting against Torah M’Sinia to people who actually are going to synagogue and somewhat looking for Torah in their lives is something Hashem prefers over “the whole Zionist enterprise” (whatever that is) and it’s ostensibly neutral stance on religion and it’s funding for Yeshivas and kollelim? Why?
I wonder if rabbi pruzansky considers the mixed army to be a kidush Hashem
Fighting for the American army is also pikuach nefesh, because there are millions of jews in America.
According to the Rivash, the main mitzva of yishuv haaretz is buying land from goyim. So if i buy 4 amos in eretz yisroel, i am fulfilling the mitzvah in a better way than the Israeli soldier (who’s not accomplishing kibbush in any case.. It’s missing many conditions)
Moshe, you’re mistaken; zionism and its shmad state aren’t the biggest chilul Hashem today – they’re the biggest chilul Hashem in history. Never before was there an entity claiming to represent world jewry that denied Hashem and the Torah and facilitates one of the most hedonistic secular cultures on the planet
Old McDonald had a farm, and on his farm he had some chickens and some ducks and cows
SOURCE: Thomas D’ufrey composer of old mcdonald
You mean in my opinion? Well, my opinion is not important. But anyway, this gentleman asks what should we say about the Neturei Karta in Eretz Yisroel -about the shitah – the derech of the Neturei Karta in Eretz Yisroel? Now that’s a question for which I am not suited. The truth is that the Neturei Karta have choshuveh talmidei chachomim among them. But it’s true that among those who are not Neturei Karta there are also very choshuveh talmidei chachomim. So you really want me to stick my little head between them – between Rav Amram Blau, zul’zein gezunt, and between, let’s say, Rav Chaskel Abramsky, who’s not Neturei Karta?! Or HaRav Shach, the Rosh Yeshiva in Ponovizh. He’s also not Neturei Karta.
In general, though, we must know that there is no question that almost everything that is fundamental is germane to all of them – to all of our Torah leaders. They really have the same ideas. They just differ on minor points. The truth is that these points are very minor. Like someone once said, and he was right, “All yeshiva people, all over the world, are really Neturei Karta.” It means that we all agree with the Neturei Karta – the only question is should we do exactly this or that. For example, when it comes to voting, some Gedolim say that we should vote in the elections in Eretz Yisroel in order to give more power to the Orthodox – to the Agudas Yisroel party. And others say that by voting you are signifying your consent to the atheistic regime. So this – and other minor points – are delicate questions and it is up to greater people than me to decide.But in general, we have to know, that more or less, everyone is in agreement. Among the good element everybody is in agreement.
TAPE #61
>>>So you really want me to stick my little head between them – between Rav Amram Blau, zul’zein gezunt, and between, let’s say, Rav Chaskel Abramsky, who’s not Neturei Karta?!
Neither the Neturei Karta today nor the people who they fight against are the same as what the situation during the lifetime of Rav Amram Blau was.
And the Neturei Kara was controversial back then too. See what Rav Yosef Elyah Henkin had to say about them at the end of Kisvei Rav Yosef Elyah Henkin. And that was even though he agreed with them that frum people should not vote or be in the Knesset.
To the OP,
Mitzvah #2 is definitely correct.
Mitzvah #3 – Sometimes. If there is a clear miracle, and they openly recognize the hand of Hashem in protecting Jewish people.
Square_Root: Hear! Hear!
Davening for the welfare of jews, in eretz yisroel, in America, in the Israeli army, has nothing to do with zionism. The fact that there are people who are frum who are mishtadel to keep Jews safe is fine, but the only reason why we need an army is because the zionists put us in the lion’s den to begin with. The chazon ish made this point very often…i forgot the exact moshol he gave, but kt was something along the lines of throwing someone into a pit and then expecting them to be grateful to you for taking them out
Tut mir nisht ken tovos, as they say.
Rav millers fierce antizionism in no way contradicts what he said about davening for soldiers. When soldiers came to the steipler to ask for his bracha before a dangerous mission, he prayed for them fervently, because they’re yidden and they’re in danger; it’s really not that complicated. Actually, they’re in more danger because of the repulsive state of the army, because Hashem said in war that he will turn away from us if there’s ervas davar in our camp. And there’s no shortage of ervas davar in the IDF.
Melech David had an army, was he wrong?
We see what happens in the middle east in the last 50 years. Hazen Ish didn’t. Thinking that yishuv would have survived Arafat, Hafez Asad, Aytollahs, ISIS is not very believable..So if we agree that some army is needed, form the one that will do the job properly if you are not happy with tzahal
@avira I thought you followed the satmar Shita that’s not the shita of satmar the shita of satmar is that every second in the idf is יהרג ועל יעבור so it’s irrelevant if their is a סכנה or not. In addition the satmar rebbe held that if they give up the government there won’t be a danger. the words “we need a army” and saying that it’s ok for them to be משתדל for yidden by serving in the army because we have no choice is against the shita of satmar
Also listen to Rav Gershon Ribner’s clip titled “the powerful force of antisemitism unleashed by the Zionist movement”
https://rebgershonribner .com/the-powerful-force-of-anti-semitism-unleashed-by-the-zionist-movement
57, I don’t know what made you think that I’m a satmar chossid; don’t believe the myopic modern Orthodox party line of “only satmar was against the state,” or the more corrupt “only satmar was against eretz yisroel,’ where religious zionists conflate a secular, atheist, land worshipping state with the holy land that Hashem promised to us
Edited
My rebbeim were not satmar chasidim. Most of the Torah world does not support dismantling the IDF immediately, as this would put jews in danger. I don’t know what the satmar rov held of this issue, but the gedolim mostly agreed that the state should be dismantled peacefully(and with it, the army). Rav shach would daven everyday for the peaceful dismantling of the state. But as long as there is a state, i am not aware of a large amount of gedolim who say that the army needs to be taken apart at the moment.
There are frum soldiers who believe in Hashem running the world; to them, their service is hishtadlus. It’s not a terrible thing to go to the army if one is unable to learn and stays exclusively in a charedi unit. Rav shteinman held of this to an extent
@smerel
No the average person going to a ‘reform’ synagogue is not looking for Torah. They are looking for a sense of ethnic/cultural community and socialization>>> Rav shach would daven everyday for the peaceful dismantling of the state.
What is the source for this statement?
Smerel, i believe I saw it in merosh amana. Not sure where… definitely heard it from the author of the Empty Wagon, and I’m pretty sure it’s in that sefer too.
Ashkenazim being Ashkenazim
“I’ve heard and seen enough of those type of shiurim in life to know that a secular Israeli could just as easily give a lecture”
smerel: So you should speak to the Rabbonim shlita giving these horrible shiurim and give them a piece of your mind, setting the record straight that they are dead wrong.
Leave them your number to consult with you before they make such future errors.
Yabia Omer, DO NOT START UP! Sefardim being Sefardim: who cares if people do aveiros?
>>>definitely heard it from the author of the Empty Wagon
A rule in life is not to trust people who are in the business of pushing an agenda…
His agenda is Torah. That’s an agenda certainly worth pushing and trusting.
Smerel, everyone’s pushing an agenda, besides for gedolei hador. I choose to listen to people who are more religious, because even if they’re biased, they’re airing on the right side (tarti mashma). The biases of a person who wishes to further Torah and minimize sin is better to me than that of leftists who wish to erode Torah under the guise of rationalism and tolerance etc…
>>>So you should speak to the Rabbonim shlita giving these horrible shiurim and give them a piece of your mind
Very few of the many Talmedey Chachmim I’ve met talk that way.
It’s primarily the proselytizers for hating secular Israelis (but of course no other secular Jews, they give plenty of kovod to anti-Torah secular American Jews when it suits their purposes) who talk that way. I hear from them via their students who continue their proselytizing so I respond to their students. Not to them
>>>I choose to listen to people who are more religious,
Making a living off being vitriolcy anti-Zionist doesn’t make you more frum. As the Satmar Rebbe put it “anyone who wants to can become a kanoi overnight”
>>>because even if they’re biased, they’re airing on the right side
If they are too extreme and emotional about the issue they very likely are NOT on the right side. I’m sure Shapiro didn’t bother informing you that Ponevich fly’s the Israeli flag on Yom Haaztmut, Rav Shach used to daven in a shul that said Hallel and Yom Haatmut (he himself never said it but he didn’t walk out in protest either and by far of most importance, Rav Shach strongly felt that Shapiro’s group and their ilk are the cause of a lot of the hatred to the frum world in Israel due to their endless standoffish and confrontational behavior with secular Israelis. I go with Rav Schach and the many other Gedoley Torah who felt that Shapiro and co are doing the WRONG thing.
>>>The biases of a person who wishes to further Torah and minimize sin is better to me than that of leftists
Having read Shapiro’s book it has nothing to do with Torah and minimizing sin. It has to do with propaganda and trying convince you that secular Israelis today are collectively responsible for the attitudes and behavior of people who are long dead. If he is going to plagiarize from the Chazon Ish the title “The Wrong Battle” would be a far better title for his book than the one he choose.
Rabbi Shapiro is a brilliant person with so much to offer the frum world. In times like today when Yiddishkeit is under attack from all sides, there is so much he could accomplish for the frum world and Torah.Had he written a 1300 page book against the CURRENT enemies of Torah and their ideologies he would be from the strongest spokesman for and defenders of Torah Judaism in our time. His former website, frumteens, was a lifesaver for some. Tragically he closed that website down and chose to use his talents and energy to fight people and ideals that are long dead. Chaval!
Avira > choose to listen to people who are more religious, because even if they’re biased, they’re airing on the right side
While I understand the feeling, this is circular thinking. Torah tells us not to turn either right or left from it.
For example, why did R Soloveichik study philosophy? I don’t think he left a big imprint on millions of followers of Herman Cohen. Presumably, he felt that this study will enhance his Torah. I am not saying that anyone who learns secular studies is a better T’Ch, but at least in this case, this is good Torah. You showed respect to him here, but I am not sure whether you learned any of his Torah. I would be interested to hear your opinion on a direct comparison between different briskers.
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