- This topic has 25 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 2 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Lately I’ve been reading comments on this site about Rabbi Dov Lipman and I am truly disgusted when some people refer to him as Mr. Lipman. I dont care if you dont agree with him, but why does that make you think you can call him mr instead of his proper title as rabbi? Im pretty sure he has smicha from Ner Yisrael and if you dont think thats a respectable yeshiva then I dont know what to say.
I don’t recall the Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Yisroel referring to him as Rabbi. That should tell you something about his standing.
???? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? “?? ?????” ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ?????, ??”? ????? ?????, ?????? ????? ?????? ???????.
????? ????? ?? ??? ???”?, ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???. “?????? ???????? ?? ?”? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ????? “?? ?????” ?? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ??”?”. ??? ???”?. “??????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ?? ??????,’ ????? ??? ????? ??????, “???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????”.
This is what R’ Aharon Feldman Shlita wrote about him.
no links
nishtdayngesheft
I was going to write the same thing-
just to add,
His own yeshiva disowned him.
(Yoskah was also a “rabbi”. Not to compare, cv’s, just to understand, that being a rabbi at one point, means nothing if you don’t respect gedoly hador)
The letter that is quoted has been retracted by Rav Feldman himself, by the way. And the content of the letter itself are also misleading. Ner Israel has produced hundreds and thousands of musmachim who are college graduates in the past half century, so Rav Feldman’s comments are of very recent vintage and not in line with reality. The fact is that Rabbi Lipman is a genuine musmach of Ner Israel and the ones who keep on insulting him= “asidim leekable es hadin”
Like I posted before, if you ask many NIRC alumni, R’ Lipman is more in line with NIRC than R’ Feldman.
ROB makes a good point that this letter seems to have been retracted.
It would be wise to avoid judging and besmirching someone without all the facts.
Gimar Chasimah Tovah.
ROB,
R Feldman did not retract the above, he said that Lipman is perhaps not a ??? ?????, but he never retracted that Lipman’s outlook is not the outlook of the yeshiva. Rather he is misguided.
What is “leekable”? Is that one of the ???????
leekable = ????
Summary: Re: “update: Hear Rav Feldman strongly denounce Rabbi Lipman” where Rav Feldman openly states that Rabbi Lipman is a “shona uperish” (someone who learned Torah but then separated/removed himself from it) and point blank a “rosha” (wicked) for saying on Israel Radio that he would shut down the yeshiva ketanos (the high schools) in Israel for not teaching “limudei chol” secular studies. Furthermore, continues Rav Feldman, that this fits in with all the enemies of the Jews from the times of “Amalek”. And now in Eretz Yisrael the enemies of Torah want to “undermine everything” while claiming they “love” the Charedim when in fact they hate them and they hate the Torah.
Who said Rabbi Lipman doesn’t respect the gadolim?
I didn’t suggest that he does not, so I don’t understand how this is relevant specifically to anything I posted.
Do you listen to everything the gadolim say?
This has absolutely nothing to do with [R] Lipman. There is a clear difference between something on an individual level and something on a societal one. Whether or not I follow the gedolim on everything they promulgate as an individual has no bearing on this.
If so, then what are you doing on the Internet?
B”H I have rebbeim. Societal issues on an individual level sometimes beget a different analysis. V’ein kan makom leha’arich.
I don’t recall the Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Yisroel referring to him as Rabbi. That should tell you something about his standing.
About whose standing – Rabbi Lipman or the Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Yisroel?
kfb- You asked “why does that make you think you can call him mr instead of his proper title as rabbi?” I posted the excerpt from a letter by HaRav Aharon Feldman Shlita to provide a potential (legitimate) reason / basis for this practice. I did not express my personal (and irrelevant) opinion on the matter.
ROB,
Check out the audio — it’s much worse. So if anything, the portion of the letter I posted is misleading in that it’s too positive.
(The fact is that Rabbi Lipman is a genuine musmach of Ner Israel) and the ones who keep on insulting him= “asidim leekable es hadin”
What is the factual basis for such a statement?
kfb: Pretty much its Rabbi Feldman and others disassociating Ner Yisroel with Mr. Lipman and saying that he is not a product of their training. Enough said. Also, The Gedolim have allowed internet with a filter in the workplace and have not (as far as I know) assured Yeshiva World. And more so, your claim that he was educated in Ner Yisroel, if the Rosh Hayeshiva himself is telling you that he is not a product of their chinuch then I do not need to follow (which one absolutely should) everything they say to accept that his Rabbinic validation is based on an institution who themselves deny so.
kk, we’ll leaver it at plain lipman. agav, R gifter called lamm mr lamm. cannaworms!
There are many people who have semicha but do not use the title “rav” nor are they called by it as they do no hold rabbinic positions nor do they teach limudei kodesh.Thus, the correct form is “MK Lipman”. Having said that, it is certainly improper to denigrate him. Interestingly, there is a group in the US that is pushing for civility in discourse. Chochma bagoyim taamin.
Torahumaddah- I was replying to yitzchkims post about Rabbi Lipman not respecting the gedolim. On a side note, it may be hard to understand this but we are able to make our own decisions sometimes without then help of rabbis. Its our free choice not theirs.
YOU KOFER!
kfb-
Lipman can’t have it both ways. If he calls himself dati, i’d understand and treat him as such. But no. He calls himself a “charedi” rabbi, bred by NIRC and its’ outlook in torah.
According to “charedi” thought, listening to, conferring with and conforming to the wishes of gedoly hador is rule number one of being a frum person (known as a charedi)
gavra at work: Tssk! tssk! and this before yom kippur ! (I know you meant it sarcastically!)
As far as Rav Feldman’s letter- the facts are that Rav Feldman lived in Eretz yisroel for well over thirty years before being to be Rosh Hayeshiva in Ner Ysroel.I venture to say that his view is NOT what the yeshiva means or ever meant. Obviously, people have the kovod not to contradict him ,but his comments do NOT square with the practices of Ner Israel for the lasy sixty years. Lastly, Rabbi Lipman is a genuine musmach and he has done nothing to merit the insults of the posters. He has a point of view on learning and working and secular studies that is the NORM in the US and in many yeshivos in Israel. The chareidi world is desperate to keep its subsidies and present structure (jobs, jobs, jobs!)- a structure that is bound to fail! So, attack the messenger, a lot easier than responding to the challenges.
I agree with RabbiOfBerlin. Ner Yisrael is fairly unique in that there is no official yeshiva ideology set by one person. If it was set by one person, the person wouldn’t be Rabbi Feldman. After he become Rosh Yeshiva, he pretty clearly diverged from the path set by the previous Roshei Yeshiva, R’ Kulefsky, R’ Weinberg, and R’ Ruderman. But most of the hanhala is closer in ideology to the previous manhigim.
The biggest joke is that NIRC in Baltimore is not charedi AT ALL. R’ Feldman may want to make friends with the Bnei Brak crowd, but the FACT is that R’ Lipman’s views are more in line with MOST of NIRC and NIRC alumni than R’ Feldman’s.
I wish to completely associate myself with the words of VM. As a talmid (albeit a poor one) of all three of the previous Roshei Yeshiva and as the father of a NIRC musmach, it is clear to me that R’ Feldman, Shlita public writings and utterances are significantly at odds with many of the views expressed and hanhagos followed by those who have gone before.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.