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To all you people saying “neo Chabad is different” “Chabad has pivoted/ modernized etc”
That’s no different than saying that Halacha has pivoted or modernized.
No. Every generation has its unique shlichus and The Rebbe guides them in that direction with the same principles etc.And Rso- other Chassidim are obviously more to be referring to their Rebbe when they say Rebbe, but sometimes they also could mean ours.
Rso- so what… Tanya 42 also says that there’sa spark of Moishe in every yid- that doesn’t negate the Moshe shebador.
Menachem regarding my claim that Lubavichers tell people that when chassidim of other Rebbes say, “the Rebbe” they are referring to the Lubavicher rebbe:
“I never heard this, but I guess it’s possible that a (more) ignorant Lubavitcher guy thought this once.”I’m sure it was some ignorant guy who thought this up, but it has spread, and I have heard it a number – not a lot – of times. I think I may even have seen it somewhere online, but perhaps not.
2scents: I have no need to look into all mekoros, for me it’s enough my Rebbe says so (see hilchos Talmud Torah of Rambam 5:5)
I just wanted deeper understanding as it’s always
brought up here.So something interesting: in one of the mekoros of another of the mekoros I looked up it says that when Moriah comes he will karkar kol bnei sheis. What does this mean? When Moshiach comes and Atzmus will be revealed, The goyim (and rest of creation) will see evidently that they have no real existence of their own- their whole being is isified by Hashem every moment and there’s nothing.
However, a yids true metzius is Atzmus itself so we would still have a sense of identity-( that we are a representation of Hashem in this world- my Ed)
For all those Atzmus investigators…
If you don’t feel this day to day you can get a Rebbe who personifies this, and/or you can learn Chassidus Chabad to get in touch with your yechida (or you can get a goy to threaten your life unless you convert etc)
@Qwerty
Th.
What is the Kiss Method ?
@menachem
-Is there anything still happening with the point I raised about ‘bias ‘ ?
-Do not think you thought for one minute That I took the phaiphing personal , they were not phaiphing at us as people , but they were phaiphing at any challenge to their derech , wherever that derech might still take them in the future ….
.
Btw – that other religion started of , totally Jewish , separated itself from Judaism and emerged as a totally separate one .
Now, that did not happen overnight . It is my understanding that the break was finalized some 300 years later . Maybe not 300 years but close to it . It was a slow process .
I don’t think habad is a repeat of that other one , but in my lifetime I saw the goalposts moving in a quite remarkable way.
Who can know what the end result is going to be ?
When the moving started ,I would not be able to predict that we would be standing where we are now . And yet here we are.
So how can we safely predict where the goalposts will be in 50 years from now ?
the only difference is that their rebbi is not here to move the posts further …. but who can predict what [some] hasidim are going to do ?
I think that we need Mashiach now …. the REAL one .Rso-
“ Where on earth did you get that from?”
I’m sure you don’t want too hear Chassidus so basic sources are “bizechus nashim tzidkonios etc etc”
For Miriam- the women, let by Miriam had tambourines, prepared while still in the worst of golus, while the men
Didn’t- the women had more EmunaAharon was mourned by men and women alike because he brought Shalom while Moshe wasn’t (Rashi on Aharon’s passing and the mourning)
To yankel berel
My apologies. I thought everyone was familiar with the KISS method. It stands for “keep it simple stupid.” Too many of the posters get bogged down arguimg Pshatim in Tanya and the like. This is irrelevant. Lubavichers posit that the Rebbe is god. Nothing .ore need be said.
To ARSo
You’re making two mistakes. First, you assume that all Lubavichers are the same which is that they’re trying to convert every Jew to Chabad. Second, based on that misconception, you accuse the Rabbis of that shul of missionizong. That’s patently false.The only thing they do to that end is simg Yechi after Kabbolos Shabbos on Friday night.CS
” I have no need to look into all mekoros, for me it’s enough my Rebbe says so”
Great, but it appears that the desire to elevate “the Rebbe” to the highest status throughout human history is leading some to express ideas that seem unusual (so say the least) to the general yiddishe population.
CS
“That’s no different than saying that Halacha has pivoted or modernized.
No. Every generation has its unique shlichus and The Rebbe guides them in that direction with the same principles etc.”Halacha does not change, nor do the rest of yiddiin believe they are on some type of shlichus. These concept may seem mainstream to Chabad but not to mainstream yiddin. Its a newer concept.
Arso, this is why i make it a point to always refer to the last Lubavitcher rebbe as such, even when it’s clear that I’m talking about him, because of how many people try to convince others that “the rebbe” is s term that implies the Lubavitcher rebbe.
In all chassidishe communities that I’ve seen, chasidim refer to their rebbe simply as “der rebbe” or “der rebbe zt”l,” so if a Lubavitcher says that, i have no issue with it, but when they make it out to be as though their rebbe was “THE rebbe” for the entire world… it’s chabad supremacism.
Cs, chas veshalom to say that the yidden didn’t mourn moshe rabbeinu! Rashi just means that the mourning was more intense because of what he did for their interpersonal relationships.
Cs, from an outsider perspective, there has been a change in chabad after the Lubavitcher rebbe passed away. The tzfas-niks weren’t an issue before he passed away, and tznius was a ton better in crown heights. I don’t think you can deny that modern elements, brought in by the large number of recent BTs and gerim, have affected chabad culture – just go out and look at what the younger generation does.
Fanaticism and modernity are flip sides of the same coin – the void of stable leadership. They need a new rebbe; it’s not very complicated.
Qwerty: cunin never said the Rebbe runs the world instead of Hashem cvs. You said Hashem will hand over the reigns to moshiach (ie he’ll rule instead of Hashem.)
The simple meaning is as I said before, cunin was saying The Rebbe runs the world (as in performs miracles etc etc) instead of people thinking that what the doctors say rules etc. No Lubavitcher would think cunin meant the Rebbe runs the world instead of Hashem, because to a Lubavitcher that’sa contradiction in terms. The Rebbe had no other desires other than what Hashem wants, and saw himself as a shliach of Hashem in this world.
That said, I personally wouldn’t express myself in such a way, (cunin isn’t The Rebbe) partially because I don’t see clearly which things are The Rebbes effect so to speak and which are a result of my personal Tefillos only and which are simply Hashems kindness to me etc etc
Whereas cunin lived in a different era
2scents
“Great, but it appears that the desire to elevate “the Rebbe” to the highest status throughout human history is leading some to express ideas that seem unusual (so say the least) to the general yiddishe population.”
Interesting, my perception is that this used to be not so unique at all (again see hilchos Talmud Torah 5:5) but because there are very few Tzaddikim- I don’t know of any others today that I’ve heard of- it sounds strange.
You know in lubavitch we also have many respected Rabbanim and mashpiim, and we listen carefully to what they say, but we wouldn’t swallow every word as if it’s G-d given, because they’re not Tzaddikim of Tanya- they still have their own yeshus to a certain level- and maybe what they’re saying comes from that- so we won’t respond with the same bitul to every innocent suggestion they make (not talking about psak.)
Whereas The Rebbe is different, so we treat him differently. Many Lubavitchers get a shock when they interact with other Jews and see they don’t display the same reverence for their Torah leaders. We would expect it to be the same. Until they explain to us (in my case) that their Rebbe has a yetzer hara due to yeridas hadoros…)
Avira- rashi says the women only mourned Aharon- I’m sorry if you misunderstood my post
2scents- regarding yitzro Gadol heimenu- The Rebbe taught about Yochanan Kohen Gadol (The one who went off at 80 years- hope I got the name right) that if a tzadik doesn’t keep pushing at his avoda (which is above struggles with actual aveiros in action, speech, thought as mentioned- Tanya yud)
Then he can lose his level and descend all the way down eventually like what happened by Yochanan Kohen Gadol.
Like we learned in school that in life you need to run up the opposite direction escalator- it’s not a ladder- if you’re not going up you’re going down r”l
Here’s the Rashi in case there’s a fuss:
THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL [WEPT] — i.e., the men; but regarding Aaron, — because he pursued peace, and made peace between a man and his fellow, and between a woman and her husband, it is stated, (Numbers 20:29) “The whole house of Israel [wept for him]” — the men and the women (Pirkei DeRabbi Eliezer 17)Cs, you’re not answering why cunin said that the “whole world” will see that the Lubavitcher rebbe runs the world. Not chabad chasidim being strengthened in their chasidus based esoteric ideas, and not klal yisroel that (to him) should embrace chasidus – no, goyim, the whole world who is unaware of Hashem’s rulership, will know not that Hashem runs the world, but that the Lubavitcher rebbe does, in whatever capacity that is.
2scents:
“ Halacha does not change, nor do the rest of yiddiin believe they are on some type of shlichus. These concept may seem mainstream to Chabad but not to mainstream yiddin. It’s a newer concept.”Oh, please show me the Halacha lMoshe Misinai which discusses flicking lights on Shabbos?
Ie Halachic principles stay the same but Halacha definitely adapts to each situation, so there are changes in that way. Same with Chabad…
We’re all here on a shlichus from Hashem (I’m sure there are nigle sources for that, even Avodai heim etc)
And yes, there’sa plan with this world, which is to read it for Moshiach- and as every generation builds on previous generations work- the mission changes- for example in the time of the Tannaim and Amoraim- they were supposed to refine the chochma of the world- so that’s why every person wanted to be a philosopher. Look at today- it’s not the same world.In general, The golus avoda was generally masculine- forcing kedusha upon the world / conquering it from klipa etc- so it was more desirable to be a boy.
Now we’re at the cusp of geula- we’re entering a feminine era where you will see Elokus radiating from the world upwards, the body will give life to the neshama etc etc (I’m sure theres nigle sources for everything, but these topics are more discussed in the Neshama of Torah- which Chassidus brings down to our level)
So now, for example, The Rebbe elevated women in a way they weren’t previously, to prepare for this era etc etc
Just some examples- but yes there’sa plan with Creation, and as the plan progresses, the focus of the time changes
Avira- interesting you write that- it seems lubavitch deadly in yesteryear what the entire frum world is dealing with today. I met a few people today, not lubavitch, and when I said I’m concerned about what influences my kids may pick up in school, they assured me that lubavitch is doing very well and I have nothing really to worry about. They said it’s going on in every circle today. (Due to technology etc)
Personally I think it’s part of the teshuva process for geula- today people will not be frum because their parents are- it needs to be real and meaningful. Because there are many alternatives and it is increasingly easy to access it
CS
״ Oh, please show me the Halacha lMoshe Misinai which discusses flicking lights on Shabbos?”
Halacha does not pivot, saying its based on old principles but pivoted is not the structure of halacha.
Regardless, it seems you clarified the mindset of chabad, that “the Rebbe” is not just another rebbe but the ultimate person alive since mankind and therefore his word is accepted as final as if its from Hashem himself. So much, that you try teaching it to the masses.
I don’t think that in our history, starting from the Avrohom Avinu did we ever hold any human being to this high regard.
Furthermore, it would require more than your subjective assessment to determine if any human being actually reached that level, your feelings toward “the Rebbe” are irrelevant and certainly not enough to place him at that level.
Cs, rashi doesn’t mean that the women didn’t mourn Moshe at all; that’s unthinkable. He means that the women weren’t as emphatic in their mourning for moshe as they were for aharon
Avira-
“Cs, you’re not answering why cunin said that the “whole world” will see that the Lubavitcher rebbe runs the world. Not chabad chasidim being strengthened in their chasidus based esoteric ideas, and not klal yisroel that (to him) should embrace chasidus – no, goyim, the whole world who is unaware of Hashem’s rulership, will know not that Hashem runs the world, but that the Lubavitcher rebbe does, in whatever capacity that is.”Again you could say the same thing about Moshiach’s kingship if you’ve never learned into what that’s all about. A Rebbe, by definition (in Chabad) is batul to Hashem, so he meant the Rebbe (through nissim etc) runs the world (as opposed to nature). We in Chabad would never say The Rebbe (as opposed to Hashem) because it’sa contradiction in terms. Whenever we say “The Rebbe said…” etc, we mean Hashem speaking through The Rebbe, not the Rebbe with his human aspect (and before you jump on me, in Medrash tehillim it says on Moshe ish HoElokim- that his lower half is man and his upper half is Elokim. (Obviously, not a separate god- his persona radiates G-dliness, what he says is what Hashem says through him etc)
And why the whole world- when people are aware of Tzaddikim- that is a revelation of G-dliness in this world (see Tanya where it discusses the midas harachamim that Hashem mixed in to the creation of the world- which otherwise would have had no G-dly revelation. The rachamim was Tzaddikim and miracles in Torah)
To Avirah
Thank you for weighing in on cunin’s statement. Despite what CS would like us to believe cunin meant exactly what he said.
To CS
“Cunin lived in a different era.* Would that be in the time pf the Besht? Earth to CS. He’s still alive. As for my state.ent that Mosbiach will rule rhe world. In a sense thst will be true. He will likely forge peace alliances with all the world’s powers lile Shlpmo Hamelech.Of course, that’s only one possibilty..Cs, no, we don’t daven that the whole world will know moshiach. He is a vehicle for the world knowing Hashem. We daven all the time that the world will know Hashem – we don’t say to Hashem that he should send moshiach in order that they all know who moshiach is; maybe that’s what chabad does, but it’s very twisted.
Where in any of our tefilos do we pine for the world to know moshiach? We want moshiach SO THAT people will know Hashem!
And if cunin and chabad use the terms rebbe and god interchangeably, whatever reason you’re going to give for that, i think it speaks for itself…
Not every word that a tzadik says is nevuah; not every word that even a navi says is nevuah! Only when he speaks for Hashem; this is why Moshe was able to make a mistake, on his level, when he said shinu nah hamorim; that was him talking, not Hashem, no matter how batul to Hashem Moshe was(and he was the most batul because he was the biggest anav)
Avira- I was quoting the Rashi- I’m happy that women did mourn if that’s the meaning- I didn’t read the mefarshei rashi…
My point was that other Tzaddikim can have something that Moshe didn’t have. Rso never heard of this I guess, so I was replying with sources…
To CS
So now you’ve clarified what you want us gullible snags to believe what cunin meant. Fine. But even if we accept your premise, why should the Rebbe be the person chosen by Hashem to represent Him not only while he was alive but even after he was dead? He was only the Tzaddik hador according to Chabad? You know the deal. Checkmate.
CS: “And Rso- other Chassidim are obviously more to be referring to their Rebbe when they say Rebbe, but sometimes they also could mean ours.”
Why would, say, an Amshinover chossid, while talking to another Amshinover chossid, say, “the rebbe” and mean the Lubavicher rebbe? Can you really believe that that is ever the case, unless, of course the topic just happened to be Lubavich, and saying “the rebbe” in context may mean the Lubavicher rebbe. But then, if the topic was Lelov, then “the rebbe” may mean the Lelover Rebbe.
2scents
“Halacha does not pivot, saying its based on old principles but pivoted is not the structure of
halacha.”I don’t really care which words is used. My point is that Halacha adapts to whatever situation there is, and it is always relevant because of that- same with Chassidus.
“Regardless, it seems you clarified the mindset of chabad, that “the Rebbe” is not just another rebbe but the ultimate person alive since mankind and therefore his word is accepted as final as if its from Hashem himself. So much, that you try teaching it to the masses.”
No not at all. We hold our Rebbe to be the Moshe Rabbeinu of this generation. Other Chassidim I’ve met relate to this awe of The Rebbe (because their parents tell them stories etc of their original Rebbes) but hold there Rebbeim have gone through yeridas hadoros. As I said, I would treat the Baba Sali with the same reverence, and whatever other Tzaddikim there are out there who speak with ruach hakodesh which used to be much more common. In the Litvishe world, I’ve heard that R. Yisrael Salanter was a Tzaddik.
“I don’t think that in our history, starting from the Avrohom Avinu did we ever hold any human being to this high regard.”
I’m sorry that’s your history… we have it today.
“Furthermore, it would require more than your subjective assessment to determine if any human being actually reached that level, your feelings toward “the Rebbe” are irrelevant and certainly not enough to place him at that level.”
When a Rebbe follows another Rebbe of the same caliber in an unbroken chain of Tzaddikim, and acts the same way, no reason to suspect otherwise.
Someone once asked the Rashag why he ultimately supported The Rebbe as Rebbe (he was his brother in law, and the Rashags Rebbetzin wanted him to become Rebbe) and he answered because my brother in law isn’t a liar. He says things he’s heard from the Frierdiker Rebbe (after The Frierdiker Rebbe was nistalek) and I haven’t heard anything, and he’s not a liar, so I stepped aside…
CS: “Rso- so what… Tanya 42 also says that there’sa spark of Moishe in every yid- that doesn’t negate the Moshe shebador.”
My question was whether you could find a non-Lubavich source that explains ispashtusa deMoshe etc to mean that there is an individual in each generation who is the undisputed Moshe of that generation (not just the tzaddik hador, but the Moshe Rabbeinu).
Again, I’m not saying that there aren’t numerous such sources, I’m just asking if you can cite one or more, because I don’t know of any.
Qwerty
“Thank you for weighing in on cunin’s statement. Despite what CS would like us to believe cunin meant exactly what he said.”That’s great Dan lchaf zechus at play. Do you know him personally?
“Cunin lived in a different era.* Would that be in the time pf the Besht? Earth to CS. He’s still alive.”
lol I think I said earlier- he saw The Rebbe pre gimmel Tammuz which puts him in a different era relative to me.
”As for my state.ent that Mosbiach will rule rhe world. In a sense thst will be true. He will likely forge peace alliances with all the world’s powers lile Shlpmo Hamelech.Of course, that’s only one possibilty..”
Yes he will rule the world. And that doesn’t detract from the statement that Hashem will rule the world and be the One and Only king as we say in Aleinu. The problem I had with your statement was that Hashem will hand over the reign to Moshiach, implying that we’ll serve Moshiach instead of Hashem cvs(if that were the case I’d stay in golus…)
CS, you originally wrote that Aharon was greater than Moshe in Shalom, and that Miriam was greater than him in emunah. When I asked where you got that from, you replied:
“For Miriam- the women, let by Miriam had tambourines, prepared while still in the worst of golus, while the men
Didn’t- the women had more Emuna
Aharon was mourned by men and women alike because he brought Shalom while Moshe wasn’t (Rashi on Aharon’s passing and the mourning)”Neither of those show that they were greater than Moshe Rabbeinu in any way. Your “proof” from Miriam has nothing whatsoever to do with contrasting Moshe. And regarding Aharon, all it means is that he was more involved in making Shalom than Moshe was – he may have had more time to do so, I can’t say that with any knowledge – but not that he was greater.
qwerty to me: “you accuse the Rabbis of that shul of missionizong.”
No I wasn’t. I was merely giving an example. Just like you couldn’t be friends with and appreciate a missionary so too how can you be friends with and appreciate someone who practices a”z?
On a different note, I was thrilled to find a sicha discussing what The Rambam means when he says that the highest level of serving Hashem is to do it because it’s the Emess. The sicha clarified the steps up to this avoda and also gave a way to those in the very beginning to tap into it.
My father has been wondering about the stress on Emess (as opposed to anything else) and what it means, so I was very excited to learn it for myself and pass it on.
It was לקוטי שיחות, חלק ל״ג שלח ב
CS: “And yes, there’sa plan with this world, which is to read [I assume you meant ‘ready’ – ARSo] it for Moshiach”
I may be wrong, and if I am please cite non-Lubavich sources to set me straight, but I believe the above is a totally Lubavich concept, and quite likely a fairly recent one. The plan I believe in is that we are to keep Torah and Mitzvos solely because that is what Hashem wants, and by the way that will reveal his Elokus in the world. To the best of my recollection I have never heard that the plan has to do with Mashiach except in Lubavich circles.
I have to agree with qwerty here. Cunin meant what he said in a literal sense. All the explaining and justification won’t change that. Does that make him an apikorus? Possibly, but don’t try to convince us that he meant something he didn’t. We’re not that stupid.
CS: “Other Chassidim I’ve met relate to this awe of The Rebbe (because their parents tell them stories etc of their original Rebbes) but hold there Rebbeim have gone through yeridas hadoros”
Two points:
1. You obviously haven’t met the chassidim that I and others hang around with.
2. So much of what you, and some others write, is based on what you feel about your rebbe. You feel he’s the greatest person who ever lived. You feel he’s the Mashiach. You feel that he is the only one who has not experienced yeridas hadors. Etc. I’m sorry to disappoint you, but feelings don’t count. Not in Torah. In Torah we have rules and criteria, and, as I keep pointing out, your rebbe doesn’t win on the necessary criteria.Furthermore, a lot or your feelings are based on “facts” without basis that were fed to you. We have heard someone claim that your rebbe knew virtually every sefer published before the war by heart. That he is direct patrilineal descendent of Dovid Hamelch (“He said so himself!”). That he didn’t want to become rebbe and it was forced upon him. (In refutation of that I gave LUBAVICH SOURCES: SZ Gurary’s book which discusses the infighting between the Lubavicher rebbe and his brother-in-law, and “Larger than Life” which says that his parents only agreed to the shidduch on condition that he later became rebbe.) That he was the most humble person. That he was the world’s greatest gaon (yes, I’m once again going to quote his nigleh reasoning for not sleeping in the sukkah to refute that claim). And more that I can’t remember offhand.
To ARSo
Thamks for backing me up. CS thinks I should dan cunin lkaf zchus. Based on what? He hasn’t sacrificed Korbonos for the Rebbe. As for your comment about associating with Lubavichers. I think I can deal with them and not be converted.Avira- the way you explained how you know of moshiach is exactly the way we would- and how we view a Tzaddik/ Rebbe
etc. (obviously the revelations we’ll see by Moshiach are incomparably greater)Rso- regarding more sources for Moshe Rabbeinu/ Nassi hador- I posted a sicha on it before shabbos together with the sources. I believe the first was the megale amukos
Avira-
“ we don’t say to Hashem that he should send moshiach in order that they all know who moshiach is; maybe that’s what chabad does, but it’s very twisted.”No we don’t do that
“Where in any of our tefilos do we pine for the world to know moshiach? We want moshiach SO THAT people will know Hashem!”
Right
“Not every word that a tzadik says is nevuah; not every word that even a navi says is nevuah!”
Yes but with ruach hakodesh…
“Only when he speaks for Hashem; this is why Moshe was able to make a mistake, on his level, when he said shinu nah hamorim; that was him talking, not Hashem, no matter how batul to Hashem Moshe was(and he was the most batul because he was the biggest anav)”
Yet we see that when a plague broke out and the Malach hamaves challenged Aharon, he said, Moshe never says anything from his own heart!
So what’s with the hitting of the rock etc? I saw once (I a I could find the source) that there were two plans- to go into Eretz Yisrael right away (and leave the dor hamidbar out) and have geula straight away, or go through golus and achieve a greater deeper geula? Moshe chose the latter (also didn’t want to leave his dor behind) while Hashems plan so to speak was immediate geula…
Something like that- regardless, even Moishes mistake so to speak, was guided by Hashem- I would love if anyone knows what I’m talking about and could give the mokor
Qwerty
“ But even if we accept your premise, why should the Rebbe be the person chosen by Hashem to represent Him not only while he was alive but even after he was dead? He was only the Tzaddik hador according to Chabad?”Every Jew is chosen by Hashem to represent Him here- the more we live that truth, The more others see it… rabbi cunin was talking to Lubavitchers about our Rebbe , I’m sure he would have presented the ideas differently to others who misunderstand things because they don’t come from our background (as explained previously)
Nassi hador? Yes . Only tzadik? Not necessarily (in fact there’s always 36 hidden)
Rso- to me this is a pretty basic point,
“ Neither of those show that they were greater than Moshe Rabbeinu in any way. Your “proof” from Miriam has nothing whatsoever to do with contrasting Moshe. And regarding Aharon, all it means is that he was more involved in making Shalom than Moshe was – he may have had more time to do so, I can’t say that with any knowledge – but not that he was greater.”
Every tzadik has his kav- Avraham Avinu was chessed, Yitzchak was gevura, Moshe was Emess, Aharon was shalom- there’s references in nigla (Moshe Emes, Aharon rodeif shalom etc) The women of mitzrayim- Emuna
What’s so hard to understand- my point was that just because someone is the Moshe shebador- doesn’t mean that no one else has what to add.
I remember hearing that The Rebbe said that if Satmar had not come out with the anti Zionist stance that they took, we would’ve had to do it more… everyone in Klal Yisrael has a unique mission that cannot be done by anyone else
Rso- “ Why would, say, an Amshinover chossid, while talking to another Amshinover chossid, say, “the rebbe” and mean the Lubavicher rebbe? Can you really believe that that is ever the case, unless, of course the topic just happened to be Lubavich, and saying “the rebbe” in context may mean the Lubavicher rebbe. But then, if the topic was Lelov, then “the rebbe” may mean the Lelover Rebbe.”
Agreed.
Rso-
“ I may be wrong, and if I am please cite non-Lubavich sources to set me straight, but I believe the above is a totally Lubavich concept, and quite likely a fairly recent one.”The source I know is Tanya 36-37. I’m sure the more learned Lubavitchers could fill you in more.
Obviously there’s Medrash Tanchuma- that Hashem desires to have a dwelling place in this lower world.
That’s the basis.
“ The plan I believe in is that we are to keep Torah and Mitzvos solely because that is what Hashem wants, and by the way that will reveal his Elokus in the world. To the best of my recollection I have never heard that the plan has to do with Mashiach except in Lubavich circles.”
What’s the point of revealing Elokus in this world?……
It’s like saying I believe in dialing the exact phone number (but forgetting the point is to make a call😀)Many people discuss lofty passages from Zohar or Tanya, but how do we know they know what they are talking about?
Maybe demonstrate your abilities by publishing a sefer of chidushim in nigle, or invent something, or at Least publish a paper explaining problems in einsteinian physics. If you didn’t do any of these yet, how can I trust your opinion on the important issues thrown around in this thread
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