Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher

Thanks for the laughs!!

Menachem Shmei,

For the Rebbe’s sake, can you please explain to me how we are supposed to understand the statement that the Rebbe is Atzmus melubash baguf?

(This is a serious, innocent, question. This is not a “trap”.)

Thanks

Dear Egg,

Learn Tanya well and then the whole sicha.

It is really hard to be taught in this forum.

Though it was tried.

To ujm

Rav Yochanan said that every rule has an exception. By the way he was an Amora.That would be a Rabbi who expounds the Mishna. I never said I’m a Talmid Chacham A Ben Torah is someone who loves learning Torah. And I do.

“I thought sure you’d answer my MO challenge but your silence speaks volumes. You obviously agree that being MO is perfectly valid and Sunday you’ll go online to price 90 inch TV’s.”

Haven’t really been following but you do you

Keep on n playing chess eventually you’ll win

Qwert, a large number of east side families send their kids to my yeshiva. None of them have televisions at home. Like any neighborhood, the east side has modern people, and yeshivish people. The advantage of that particular community is that the modern people have more of a connection with Torah jews, because that’s the kind of rabbonim who are in the area.

If you are wondering why rav dovid didn’t sign the kol koreh, i believe the answer is that he was exceedingly humble and might not have thought he belonged on the list.

My rebbe, rav belsky, was a prominent posek at the time of that kol koreh, but his name isn’t on there either. Yet he spoke about the evils of TV in yeshiva numerous times, and wrote a powerful haskama to a sefer about the prohibition of having/watching television, where he says “all of the gedolim of the previous generation screamed like cranes about televisions because of the great danger…”

Why didn’t rav belsky sign that particular kol koreh? Who knows. Maybe for the same reason as rav dovid. Why don’t you ask rav dovids son why he didn’t sign it, or what his shitah is, instead of assuming things? Only if you’re ready to accept the psak that is

qwerty: Does Rav Moshe Feinstein have enough Lower East Side credibility in your eyes?:

Torah Analysis of Television

1 Nisan 5735

See the Rambam z”l in Hilchos Avodah Zarah, Ch. 2, Halacha 2 who explains the prohibition to read books which have material relating to avodah zarah (idol worship) and also that it is prohibited to see the pictures in them, for the verse says “Do not turn to false gods,” even if are not turning to worship them, but just to see them (as we find in Toras Kohanim on Kedoshim). After this he writes as follows: “Regarding this it says ‘Lest you investigate their gods and ask how did the other nations serve [their gods]. You should not ask about the way they served, in which manner was it, even though you are not doing that service yourself. [Asking these questions] causes you to turn to [these activities] and to do like the did as it says [in the Torah] ‘I will also do as they did'”.

We can learn from [the words of the Rambam] to all types of sins. If a person begins to interest himself in them to know what they are, in the end he will be dragged after them and rebel against the Holy One Blessed is He, may G-d protect us.

And now what can we say regarding the impure monster called “television”? On it, the eye can see all the abominations in the world (idol worship, sexual perversion, murder, etc) with total explicit detail of the actions and the people committing them. Coupled with this there is intense propoganda and shocking motivation to live a life of debauchery and lawlessness and to throw off the yoke [of Heaven] Gd forbid. The Satan dances there, for it gives him a great power to draw people Gd forbid.

It is incredibly obvious that watching that impure device is a great danger to a person’s entire Judaism. Even a person who only watches occassionally has already cooled down his faith and his fear of Heaven G-d forbid. Someone who accustoms himself to watch it has emptied himself from any shred of faith or fear of Heaven and all the good inside of him. He has turned himself and destroyed his praises G-d forbid.

It is already well known in the world from experience that a person who puts his eyes on this impure device will turn into a evil person who throws off the yoke [of Heaven] G-d forbid. One who desires to guard his soul will distance himself from this, for in the end it will make him foul, for it is destruction.

Now we have heard that there are some people who strictly observe the laws of Torah and they themselves – as well as their older children – would never enjoy G-d forbid watching this impure device. However, they allow their young children to visit neighbors and to watch there (or they do not rebuke their children for going over to watch). They say “He is only a child, he is playing around. This device will not harm him.”

The truth is this is a grave mistake which could be considered willful [disobedience of G-d’s commands]. Really, it is the exact opposite. For children, the danger is doubled and redoubled. The desire to be curious and explore ([as the Torah says] “I will do like them”) is very powerful for children. (A child’s entire development and the way he lives his life is primarily based on this desire to do like other people do). When a child sees every kind of misdeed it is like “education” and “instruction” that he should also act this way. Additionally, a young person etches everything he sees clearly into his imagination (specifically what he sees when he is excited). These images will be etched into his memory for his entire life so that even if he merits to cling to the Torah in a place of Torah, nevertheless his soul and his Judaism will bear the bitterness of those abominable images which are engraved upon his memory just like life. This will cause him to be confused in his faith and bring shocking challenges upon him Gd forbid.

There is no doubt that there parents have a great requirement to supervise their children carefully so they should not have any contact or any glimpse of this impure device in order to save them from destruction.

In the merit of doing this, they will merit to see their children and their childrens children who learn Torah and keep the commandments. They will enjoy much nachas of holiness and in everything they turn to they will be successful for good and for blessing.

We wrote and sign for the sake of the Holy Torah and hope for mercy from Heaven and for the complete redemption soon in our days.

Rav Yaakov Yisroel Kanievsky (the Steipler)

Rav Elazar Menachem Man Shach

Rav Moshe Feinstein

Rav Yaakov Kamenetsky

March 13, 1975

To Avira
As you correctly stated the East Side has both a Yeshivish and modern element. The Yeshivish faction certainly doesn’t watch TV, but the modern does.And you know what? We all get along and respect each other. As for your suggestion that R Dovid was too humble to sign that’s a Doche answer and you know it. Rav .osne signed the original Kol Koreh and we’ll both agree that he was exceedingly humble.

To ARSo

Rav Reuvein and I used to live on the same building, before he moved to SI. I consider him a friend as well as a Rov because he’s a beautiful person. Let me share an incident. Rav Reuvein used to daven at the 7,am minyan on Shabbos at the Bialystoker. I was coming downstairs to go to shul and he was ready to walk upstairs.He saw a mechallel Shabbos woman about to take the elevator. Did he give her Mussar? Did he shun her? No they
spoke cordially to each other for about five minutes. I know you guys feel the need to impose your Flatbush elitist attitude on me, but my approach to Yiddishkeit is within the bounds of Halacha. On the other hand you’ll have to answer to Hashem for the lies you invented when you tried to prove I’m a goy for having a TV. Remember Eilu VEilu Divrei Elokim Dude.

Of course there are legitimate kiruv rabbis with such followings, just there are plenty of yeshiva drop outs too.

To Avira

The Rov who said it’s alright for me to watch TV is a respected .ember of the Feinstein family. I’m not at liberty to give any more information. He knows me for almost 60 years. He saw my transformation from basic nothingness religiously to who I am today. Why are you so obstinate? You’ve convinced yourself that you’re saving me, but the truth is that you can’t deal with the thought that a legitimate Torah Jew can watch TV. My assumption is that it violates Rabbi Miller’s doctrine.

The Yeshivshe Velt is not 100% TV free. Which is weird. Some choshuve houses never got rid of their TV. Anyways the battle is over. TV is no longer a mass casualty issue. Those that have TV either know how to manage, or have bigger problems to solve first.

I have a question for all the Lubavitchers do you believe that Hashem is still מולבש in your rebbes body after death because that would be נמנע הנמנעות ממש if hashem is עפרא לפומיא in a body that body can’t be dead ק״ו from a נשמה that when it’s מלובש in the body the body has to be alive כ״ש the חי החיים himself if he’s עפ״ל מלובש in a body that body has to be alive

I know stories of people being told by rabbonim that they can use a TV in extreme circumstances; whatever you were told has zero bearing on a public forum, where the halacha lemaysoh for everyone else is that it’s assur.

Ask this rov if you should be posting that it’s allowed in general, or if you should have stipulated that YOU were given a heter based on your circumstances.

Drug addicts are told that they can use their phones to call their sponsors on shabbos; does that mean that “using a phone is allowed on Shabbos?”

It’s like what you quoted from the kiruv rabbi earlier; “just being a role model” is the rabbinic function for a kiruv rabbi, but you made it out to be as if it’s what every rov is everywhere. Same thing here – even if you received such a heter, it does not mean that the thing is permitted for anyone else, and it’s your responsibility not to teach others to do as you do when they are not under whatever circumstances you are.

I think I have a way to put a bow on this entire t
thread. The anti TV’ers are really no different than the Rebbe is goders. Each believes what they’ve been told by their Rabbis and they feel that they must defend that position at all costs. To Menachem Shmei’s credit, he’s able to understand that I have a healthy relationship with my Rabbonim in which we listen to each other and learn from each other. Unfortunately the black hatters are so dogmatic that anyone who veers from their concept of how a Jew must act is labeled off the derech. I’m resigned to fact that neither group will budge. Maybe the smartest person was Neville who bowed out early. I am glad that I
got involved because I never would have known that it was the Rebbe who declared that he’s god. R”L.

Also I will say, that my drive to get to the bottom of Moriah min hameisim issue started in the cr several years ago. I shared that newfound knowledge recently (as Avira can attest) on a different thread here recently… so I owe the cr my gratitude. Thanks!

And was it CA or Daas Yochid who were shocked I could use the word partners in reference to us and Hashem? And sechel hayashar told me off too- he apparently has never come across such language? I’m telling you, when I learned the most geshmake maamar of the mitteler Rebbe recently, and was delving into the refreshing waters of that relationship- I thought of the cr too, with irony…

Just a few regards..

Re, how rabbonim treat people: i work with MO families on a constant basis. I treat them like jews, because that’s what they are; beloved children of Hashem. I place no importance whatsoever on their affiliation; i am there to do my job and to teach Torah. That’s what the rabbonim you know do too; i would treat you like an equal as well, because i treat every jew that way – now i might talk differently to uneducated jews who don’t understand Hebrew, and I’ll speak differently with my yeshiva friends, because they’re from that world, but the level of respect is the same across the board .

So if you’ve come far enough that people talk to you like yeshivishe baalei batim, great for you! Kol hakavod; it’s a sign of accomplishment.

qwerty:

Please see my post #2217693 above (approximately 22 posts above this one, though it may be more by time this post is approved.) It was posted at 10:51 AM today, on this same page of this thread.

It addresses Rav Feinstein zt’l and his position on television.

To cs the Tanya doesn’t mean part of Hashem himself it means a part of אצילות as it itself explaines.other Sforim both חב״ד and others do go further and say that בשורש every נשמה comes from hashem himself meaning that it was once נכלל completely in hashem but once it comes down to this world in a body it’s not נכלל in hashem anymore at the most it could reatain the level of אצילות if he’s a צדיק גמור as it explaines in תניא and could even be נכלל in אור אין סוף but under no circumstance can it be נכלל in hashem himself because hashem can’t be מלובש in a body or in anything גשמיות because that would have an affect on hashem and hashem can’t change. By the way if you look in תניא פרק ב׳ he brings from the אריז״ל that hashem is not even מלובש in רוחניות not even in חכמה דאצילות hashems only מלובש in the highest level of אור אין סוף when it’s still “in him” before it comes out to “shine” on the world. So if the Lubavitcher really meant that only אור אין סוף is מלובש in his גוף that would be one thing however if he meant hashem ממש the way some Lubavitchers explain and when they pray they have in mind hashem the way hes מלובש in mm”s than that’s מינות and ע״ז. Sometimes ספרים say עצמות but it really means אור אין סוף as those ספרים usualy explain.

Dear Qwerty,

I agree with you on not hating Jews. I advocate that the same applies to Chabad.

Dear Cs,

Think of nevuah like a flame in a fireplace. If you take it outside on a thin wick, it will go out unless you keep it enclosed from the elements. Though if you take out a coal, it would still be lit. The coal may flare up if certain forces act on it. But light an incendiary device and it will explode no matter were it goes.

Once we are back on prophecy, I would like to point out that The Chinuch in yesterday’s parsha on the mitzva of listening to a true prophet (516) writes that this mitzva applies at any time a prophet is found among us. Nothing about zman hamikdash as he writes in other places.

Dear Avira,

You overshot the target here. The TV isn’t the problem. The content is. No comparison to using a phone on Shabbos.

Dear 5783,

“however if he meant hashem ממש the way some Lubavitchers explain and when they pray they have in mind hashem the way hes מלובש in mm”s than that’s מינות and ע״ז.”

And such thinking can be found in all segments of society. What is the issue? It is inconsistent to use the Rambam’s high bar for true belief, but reject the Rambam’s assessment that not everybody will get there.

To n0mesorah

I never said a word about hating Chabad. I am simply protesting its theology. As I see it, to believe that the Ribono Shel Olam is a dead Rabbi is idolatry. If I’m wrong time will tell. As I’ve made clear I daven with Lubavichers and get along great with them. By the way, I think you’re right about Menachem Shmei. He is a decent fellow. And thanks for backing me up on the TV issue. Did Avira compare my watching TV to using a phone on Shabbos, or did I misunderstand your reference? I really had no idea that Jews could have such intense, visceral hatred for other Jews, and for absolutely no reason. This is the epitome of Sinas Chinam, but haters, by definition, are irrational.

To Lostspark

If, as has been reported in this thread, the Rebbe announced that he was god in 1962, then he made himself an idol at that moment. Now go ahead and take your shot at me. I’ve told the moderators not to hold anything back.

Huh?