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Decide who you want to live with, not who you DONT want to live with
Well said.
Monsey has a strong, independent Litvish population
Is the Litvish populain still independant? I feel that as Monsey grows and the chasidish community grows with it, the Litvish sect here is becoming less and less independant. The success of new stores opening is contingent on the chasidish community’s acceptance, Thus making us more dependant on them.
Am I wrong?
“The success of new stores opening is contingent on the chasidish community’s acceptance,”
I know nothing about monsey or its mix of inhabitants. The statement though, if true, indicates there is no independent litvishe community. If their was, a store catering solely to the litvishe would be able to survive, unless it was a very tiny community.
One of my favorite quips concerns monsey.
Yankel: everyone in monsey is rich, why do you think they spell it m o n e y
Berel: what about the s?
Yankel: S, is lirabos the talmidei chachamim
Your joke confirms my point. Yankel and Berel are clearly chassidim..
Actually, they are Temani and wouldnt know a chassid if they wandered into new square.
This is an amazing thread.
Not necessarily in a good way.
By the way, can any of you help me out?
I’m looking to move to a neighborhood where all the men wear the exact same black hat with the exact same size brim, and the exact same shade of black socks that my husband wears. Everybody in the local shuls must daven with exactly the same havara as my husband. All married women must wear sheitels the exact same style, length and color as mine, and their pocketbooks must be in the same price range (give or take $10) as mine. All young women must use the same brand of baby wipes as my daughters and make the same salads for the Shabbos seuda as my daughters-in-law. Residents under 6 years of age must sing the same Parsha songs as my grandchildren. Babies must be wheeled around in the same strollers in use in my family (details supplied upon request). Chalav Yisroel, non-gebroktz, no tolaim in the water or the lettuce, and please don’t get me started on which shechita is acceptable. Milchigs at Kiddush only on Shavuos, and kreplach Erev Yom Kippur.
Replies greatly appreciated.
People who don’t wash for Shalosh seudos and Melave Malka (home baked Challa only), please don’t bother.
😉
Hashemisreading: Really untrue. For one thing, it depends where you’re opening. If you’re opening in Wesley Hills or Pomona, you can (and probably, practically speaking, will) do great while never seeing a chassid in your store. For another thing, even in a store in the middle of 59, there are PLENTY of non-chassidim. The growing of one community to, perhaps, a majority (I haven’t seen demographic information recently) does not mean that the other community is shrinking. There are very much enough non-chassidim to, in theory, be sole supporters of a business.
I’m a second-generation Monsey resident, from a family here long before the chassidim came (not counting NS), and the whole community has exploded over the past 20-some-odd years, not just the chassidim, however huge their population growth may have been specifically.
I appalled,though unfortunately not surprised by tone of this thread. on a practical level you don’t belong in Monsey. On a hashkafic level I think you are tragic. your self congratulatory condescension is quite stunning. My opinion life is richer, more complete, more beautiful with the full fabric of society. So much of the fabric of our daily lives transcends the shape of our husbands hat and the shade of our hosiery how sad to lose those opportunities
kiryat sefer
Writer: I believe the Chasidim moved to Monsey before there were significant numbers of Orthodox non-Chasidim.
writersoul: “I’m a second-generation Monsey resident, from a family here long before the chassidim came.”
My family has 5 generations living in Monsey. Chasidim all. And we love all our chasidishe, litvishe, sfardishe, teimene, neighbors as long as they don’t litter.
Joseph, The Queen: My grandparents first moved here in the 60s. The community was very small, though not nearly as small as it had been 20 years before, when it started to become a year-round community and not just “the first stop to the country.” (So I guess I’m third-generation…? But my grandparents don’t live here anymore.)
There were small groups- though few large enough to be considered their own community- of many different types of Jews. The biggest school- still not that big- was YSV, which had a huge mix, from the chassidish kids to the girls who wore pants. I believe that Bais Rochel and Bais Dovid existed then as well (though I could be wrong), as well as ASHAR. There was one pizza store, a fleishig catering store, a bunch of shuls, and that was about it. It was very diverse- chassidish, yeshivish, MO, the whole gamut. And some of all of them were in my mom’s BY Monsey class.
So, Joe, you’re right- there have been chassidim here for a long time. But people have been emphasizing a chassidic majority, which did not exist until relatively recently (though when I say relatively, I may well mean the 80s). The rest of the community, such as on the other side of Viola, has also been growing exponentially.
The Queen: I agree with you, though I do like my block with its single-family homes with yards. The people who choose to live near me, though, I welcome no matter what their hashkafa. I think that there is an infrastructure problem, though, in a general sense.
” I agree with you, though I do like my block with its single-family homes with yards. “
I like my block with single family homes as well 🙂 I HATE the jungle of buildings that have sprung up in recent years. Not the people living in the homes… and there was no pizza shop. there was a pizza truck – Kleins. I believe that Bais Yaakov on Smolley Drive was also in existence way back as well as Bais Medrash Elyon, which also had chasidish and litvish talmidim. Unfortunately my grandparents have passed on so technically they are not living here anymore…
Bais Medrash Elyon was an anchor of the Orthodox Jewish presence.
There was a pizza shop, though I think it came a little later. It was definitely there in the 80s and 90s, when my uncles worked there. (Same location as Shelly’s 1.) There was definitely a pizza truck also, of course.
Yes, Bais Midrash Elyon was definitely the beginning kernel, like I said, of the more steady, year-round presence in Monsey.
And BY Monsey has definitely been around for a long time… though a lot has definitely changed over the years. My neighbors don’t even believe what it was like back when my mom went there, or even before.
And yes. I don’t care who lives in the houses, but when I drive down 306- or even formerly quiet, residential blocks- and due to the congestion and huge numbers of families on tiny streets I am eternally scared that I will ch”v hit someone, it’s really frightening. These tiny cul de sacs were not built for 50+ families to live on. I do love, though, how the increased population does bring more and more different types of businesses here.
Population growth is natural and accommodations for additional housing is absolutely necessary. There certainly is nowhere to build family housing in NYC.
First there was the Pizza truck and later it became a store.
“Population growth is natural and everyone needs a place to live.”
I do wish though that the zoning laws weren’t changed so drastically and people spread out to accommodate growth rather than squish together, creating the current monstrosity.
In NYC, they build up. Obviously, that’s problematic, which is why people are moving. It’s valid to think that planned suburban neighborhoods should stay suburban, but I understand if you disagree. The main issue is that infrastructure- not just housing, but roads, parking lots, sidewalks, etc- is just not capable of keeping up. There is some serious sakanas nefashos, besides for the monstrosities. (They are also often not safe- the one built next door to where my grandparents’ house used to be has a huge courtyard, below street level, with no railing. At least one car has gone off the road and through someone’s window because of that. People are taking advantage of the housing boom and being slapdash, which can produce awful results.)
Writersoul: I do hear your point that it depends in which neighborhood your opening the store, but do you agree that if a business has the “haskama” of the chasidim, or it becomes popular among them, it will likely be more successful, only because they are fast becoming the majority of populated Monsey?
I’m also not first or second generation Monsey, and I’ve pretty much watched the transition until where it is today. I find it fascinating.
Well, maybe. It depends on the neighborhood. Meal Mart tried to open that chassidish-style restaurant in the Wesley Hills area and it bombed, because it was the wrong neighborhood for it. There are very few chassidim in the area to go. But there are many successful businesses in that shopping center which do fine without chassidish clientele.
It’s for sure easier to do well if you have things like chassidishe hashgachos, particularly in the 306/59 area. (Yogenfruz motzaei Shabbos is basically all chassidish couples.) But I’d dispute that in Monsey the only way to keep a place open and successful is to appeal to chassidim. I see all the time how really huge even the non-chassidish population of Monsey is, mostly because I live in a very non-chassidish area.
Are the Chasidim outbirthing everyone else?
since this conversation clearly hit a raw nerve, and thus is sticking around let me sub-divide: Post-bonder kollel/old time monsey non chasidim/ Wesley hills/new Hempstead Pomona types are all categories of non shtreimel wearers. Chasidim basically are either tuna types or regular folk. PBK types are growing exponentially. the rest of the groups are experiencing regular growth patterns.
fhw, in a nutshell, what you’re claiming is that the non-Chasidim are outgrowing the chasidic population?
Writersoul: I also don’t live in a chasidish neighborhood, but close enough to see them all the time! Wesley Hills and Pomona used to be totattly not chasidish- but ive heard now theres a chasidish community building up in Pomona.. im sure they’ll be shopping in Wesley Kosher!
Purple Pear and Yoffee used to not have a chasssid in sight- but now go there motzei Shabbos or any other day there’ll be plenty!
The martians are coming! The martians are coming!
fathousewife: “Chasidim basically are either tuna types”
If I like tuna that makes me a “tuna type”?
Have you had a conversation that lasted for more than 10 minutes with any of the people whom you are putting into various boxes, before the sorting?
yes
Interesting- I hadn’t heard of a chassidish community in Pomona, though some developments are going up just over the line on the New Hempstead side of Viola…
Yeah, I definitely see chassidim a lot (though in other places!)- my point was much more that no one segment of the community is indispensable to a business unless they make themselves so, such as by appealing to that population.
fhw: What’s PBK? So confused… And by “tuna type” I presume you mean tuna beigel- which (if we’re going to be grouping like this, which I actually shockingly don’t think is necessary) I wouldn’t group with chassidim, as they tend to join other areas like Airmont and Pomona.
Writersoul: the chassidish community in Pomona is mostly ex -chasidish, people that moved in from Boro Park.. (Tuna Beigels, a term which I hate to use)
Fathousewife: So you are saying Yes, if I like tuna I’m a tuna type. and Yes you spoke to people for more than 10 minutes before sorting them.
You haven’t had any conversation with me, yet you have no problem sorting me into a box.
The queen: if thats the case, then you’ll have no issues fitting right in to Monsey!
Hashemisreading: I fit right into Monsey, have fit in my entire life. And Tuna is sometimes on the menu at lunch.
My daughter was kind enough to enlighten me to what the derogatory title Tuna bagel implies. I’m surprised the Mods are letting this whole thread here, when they edit some comments which are a lot more benign.
Hashemisreading: My point is that calling them a chassidish community is a misnomer. They are living a lifestyle which they find fulfilling and blend in upon many other families who are not ex-chassidish. They don’t have to be labeled by how they used to be. You mentioned something about an actual chassidish community in Pomona, which is what I was surprised at. To hear that many ex-chassidim are living among the many never-chassidim in Pomona doesn’t shock me at all- I know many of them myself.
If they are the same as chassidim- at what point does the statute of limitations end? My great-grandfather was an ex-chassid- does that make me a (really old, soggy and smelly) tuna beigel? Let people live their lives without past titles.
Mods, why is it ok to label derogatively an entire community of yidden? Is that not loshon Hora?
When you find it necessary to edit a debate over who is the best singer, with nothing derogatory having been said about either singer?
What are the standards in this coffee room?
Writersoul: which is why I said tuna beigel is a term I hate to use, because I didn’t want it to come out derogatorily. And I think many people’s great grandfathers were chassidim, I would be proud, not nervous of what my title is now.
No, that’s the point. I don’t care what my title is, but I’d like to be judged on what I am now, not on where I came from. That’s all.
Basically, AFAIK, there is no chassidish community in Pomona 🙂
BTW this term is fairly new. What were ex chasidim before they became tuna bagels? Ingredients for a tuna bagel? Tuna fish swimming in the water? 😉
and x misnagdim are they egg salad bagels? lox bagels?
What about x frei (BT) are they also on the lunch menu?
Pomona is less of a community than Monsey. Yes there are Jews but they are sprinkled around on each block living among Non Jews, nothing wrong with that, but wouldn’t really call Pomona a community.
In the 80’s there was a movement to build up a heimishe community in Pomona – the housing was cheaper there. It didn’t really take hold and many people moved out.
writersoul: okay, there is no chasidish community In Pomona. I wont say there’s a tuna beigel community there because that wouldn’t be nice.
Just a disclaimer- writersoul and queen- I want to make it clear that I have absolutely nothing against chasisidish people , I am pretty open-minded and I love them as my sisters and brothers. just wanted to make that clear.
” I wont say there’s a tuna beigel community there because that wouldn’t be nice.”
No it wouldn’t be nice. Maybe you can say there is a more modern crowd there. (if there is)
2scents: Depends on the block. Just like happened with my neighborhood around when my family moved in, neighborhoods which start off wholly non-Jewish or mixed can turn over REALLY quickly- and many of them are.
I would like to apologize to anyone who took offense to any of my comments in this thread. I would be thrilled to live in a neighborhood of shomrei torah umitzvos of any stripe.
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