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ever think it was a bored guy looking for attention?…ud have to be an idiot to write such bold stupid comments thinking this wouldnt cause any negative response. does anyone actually know who this is?
google her
I’ve heard of her before. She’s a moderately well-known writer. Also, she did seem aware of the backlash she would generate.
Yitta Halberstam Mandelbaum (?) used to write an excellent column for the Jewish Press for many years. I think she also is connected with the Small Miracles series, if memory serves.
You may think she was an idiot, but I believe (and my kids and I have argued this ad nauseum), that what she wrote was correct, if extremely bold, and an extremely sad commentary on our present Shidduch world. She was misunderstood, in my opinion. I read the exact same article that everyone else did. This is what I got from it:
She went to a singles event that was specifically designed to introduce young single women to potential future mothers-in-law (why the boys were not likewise subjected to this ill-advised sexist meeting, I do not know). So all the girls there were there to be paraded before and IMPRESS the women who would be making the decision over whether or not a given girl was “good enough” for her precious boychik. Mrs. Mandelbaum who was invited to be one of the mothers, expressed her deep dismay at seeing how so many girls did NOTHING to enhance their appearance (and clearly she felt they were in need of it). They had little or no makeup, did nothing with their hair, wore clothing that wasn’t appealing… the very essence of what NOT to do when trying to appeal to a future mother-in-law, especially in this day and age when such ladies are looking at scores of photographs from shadchanim and rejecting possibly the sweetest girls in the world, simply based on their appearance.
Mrs. Mandelbaum did not say she thought this was fair, or good, or right. She was simply making a VERY realistic observation about the situation and tried to offer a likewise realistic suggestion on what needs to be done about it. Everyone who came down hard on her was basically shooting the messenger. She never said she agreed that people should be preoccupied with looks instead of inner beauty. She was merely stating the obvious. It is a very competitive shidduch world, and every girl needs to give herself a competitive edge. The part that got most people who were upset so upset, was in saying that they should go so far as to have plastic surgery, if necessary (as she admittedly did, with great success).
In her opinion, if the ONLY thing holding a girl back from looking and feeling more attractive (and therefore acting more confidently)and getting her more dates, is a correctible facial flaw (that makes her less attractive to the people who are making decisions about whether or not she will be redt to their son), when she has the ability to fix that flaw, whether with cosmetics or in more serious cases, plastic surgery, she should not be afraid to take the steps to change the situation. Many people took umbrage with that, but they fail to acknowledge to themselves that this is the way things are now, like it or not. We don’t have to like it, but we need to cash a reality check and stop hiding our heads in the sand when we have brought this on ourselves.
I ALSO believe in inner beauty, but the sad fact is that who is going to bother to get to know that girl’s inner beauty if they won’t give her a chance, because she doesn’t take pains to groom her outer beauty? All girls do not need to look like models, but a little lipstick and mascara, as well as a flattering hairstyle can make a huge difference. And if a girl has bad teeth and a huge nose, orthodonture and POSSIBLY some rhinoplasty might be in order. It makes no difference at this point in time whether it is right or wrong. She can stand on her principles and be “right,” or she can level the playing field and make herself more dateable and appealing.
I think the negative reactions to this article were more of a testament to the fact that we HATE that the shidduch process has come to this state (that plastic surgery should even be a consideration for anyone). It should not be that Bnos Yisroel need to enhance themselves in order to find a husband. But in spite of the expression that all Bnos Yisroel are beautiful, the fact is that is simply not true. Many girls benefit from a little help on the outside, so that others take the time to get to know their beautiful middos. It is naive to think otherwise, distasteful as that thought might be.
We no longer live in an era when Yeshivah bochurim will marry anyone their parents arrange for them, regardless of looks. They (and their mamas) in unprecedented numbers want size twos who dress in a shtotty manner, come from money, and will be trophies for them. Yes, there are always exceptions B”H, but I also know for a fact from personal experience in trying to redt a shidduch or so, just how many mothers of boys (who are not such groysah metzias in the looks department, themselves) reject perfectly wonderful girls without ever telling their sons about the shidduch, because the girl is too plain, too short, too fat (a size eight, nebbich!), or too whatever they are shallow enough to not like. This is the system in place today, we did this to ourselves and to our children, and now we are paying the price for allowing such nonsense to proliferate in the frum velt. That does not mean that Mrs. Mandelbaum was wrong. She was merely an observer of this human condition, and offering a realistic response to the immediate problem at hand. She should not be castigated for her observations. They were very SADLY right on target.
Oomis: I have to say your post shocked me.
Mrs. Mandelbaum did not say she thought this was fair, or good, or right…..She never said she agreed that people should be preoccupied with looks instead of inner beauty.
I didn’t read the original article, but what people write, tells you exactly what they think. Nobody writes a statement, and then says, I don’t really agree with what I wrote. They write exactly what they think is correct.
People forget when seeking someone for their child, that it is the child who needs to like what they see – in this case their son. Not their mothers.
This is the system in place today, we did this to ourselves and to our children, and now we are paying the price for allowing such nonsense to proliferate in the frum velt.
Uh huh. You call it nonsense, but say it should be continued simply because that’s the way some people think? I have never heard of such logic before! If it’s nonsense, it shouldn’t be advocated to continue. A size 2 instead of a size 8? Are you kidding? That is sick!! Get plastic surgery? That’s sick, too! I would understand that one individual can have such facial features that plastic surgery would indeed be suggested, but to come home from such a event, and suggest it for several, uh uh, that is extremely shallow. Such shallowness has no place in a Jewish home.
The way to change it isn’t to tell the girls to change their appearance. My guess is they looked just fine. The attitude will have to change, when the girls do not change their appearances just to please shallow women.
Oomis: furthermore, getting plastic surgery isnt in vogue with the times, at least not by frum people. suggesting it is creating a whole new crazy attitude, making the whole situation worse, not better. what it actually is, is taking the goyishe practice and attitude today and bringing it into our culture. also saying that a woman is supposed to be a trophy for her husband is really demeaning to women. why should anyone put up with that? you can call it the reality for today, but it’s not an attitude that should be encouraged.
“I didn’t read the original article, but what people write, tells you exactly what they think. Nobody writes a statement, and then says, I don’t really agree with what I wrote. They write exactly what they think is correct.”
Computer, with all due respect, If you did not read it, read it first, and then comment. You speak from a place of partial information and heresay. She wrote what she thought, on that you are correct. She THINKS that when a girl comes to a shidduch meeting specifically for the purpose of meeting the women who will be judging her as good enough for their sons, she would be wise to put on a little makeup, comb her hair nicely, and wear attractive clothing. SHE IS 1000% RIGHT. Unfortuantely we have allowed the system to become very shallow and judgmental based on LOOKS. I did not make it that way. Mrs. Mandelbaum did not make it that way. The fact that you replied to my post as you did, proves that you do not understand either her point or my own. And that is the problem.
I personally do not like the idea of plastic surgery. it is invasive, and not without risks. But would you argue that many otherwise plain or even homely young women who underwent it, did not emerge more attractively, which had a positive impact on both their dating and their self-esteem? I never said women should be trophies for their husbands. I said that the reality today is TRAGICALLY that guys want trophy wives and are more concerned with the dress size than the size of the heart. It’s harsh to hear that, true, but it has become more and more obvious in this day and age, that this is exactly how shidduchim are being redt. The so-called desirable girls are getting the dates first, because if a mother sees three pictures of young women, and two are plainer than the third, she will look at the prettier one first, and agree to that shidduch, if all else is equal.
Stop blaming the person who made this observation. The fact that you don’t like what she had to say, does not mean she was mistaken. I don’t like it any better than you do, but it is what it is.
Computer 777, you would be shocked to know how VERY many frum girls DO get plastic surgery, and just do not publicize it. It makes me feel upset that our young girls are in this position (that they have to compete with each other), but in any competition, you need to know your target audience and within reason, do what it takes to get the job. And don’t we after all, refer to the Shidduch profiles as resumes, and the contact info as references (both concepts are bothersome to me)? Well, when you have made a strictly social venture into a business one, it would only make sense when there is more than one candidate for the “job” that the candidates should all put their best feet and faces forward. And that is what the article was saying.
(Computer 777)” A size 2 instead of a size 8? Are you kidding? That is sick!! Get plastic surgery? That’s sick, too! I would understand that one individual can have such facial features that plastic surgery would indeed be suggested, but to come home from such a event, and suggest it for several, uh uh, that is extremely shallow. Such shallowness has no place in a Jewish home.”
That is not exactly what she or I said. This concept is an unfortunate progression from the actions of the mothers of the boys, and worse yet, from the boys themselves (who should not even be knowing what a girl’s dress size is). You are right – it IS sick! Plastic surgery was not suggested for several – it was suggested that if it was NEEDED, a girl should not feel hesitant about it. Mrs. Mandelbaum went on to painfully reveal her own past issue with feeling unattractive, which encouraged her to have rhinoplasty, I believe. That had to be a very difficult admission for her to make publicly. I am the one who is shocked, that anyone has failed to understand her point. It is her observation and commentary on the reality of the situation today. She wasn’t saying anything (re: putting on makeup)that a mother who wants her child to look her best, would not tell her to do for a job interview, much less a shidduch meeting. I admit that plastic surgery is extreme, but she was speaking to the issue of specific people, and not as a general rule. It SHOULD be different by Yidden. But sadly, it is NOT.
gila manolson spoke in my school and told us sick stories about women who got plastic surguries for men. i agree with her, there is no reason a girl should have to go to the extreme of paying a significant amount of money to look a certain way thats broadcasted to us through hollywood! we aren’t that materialistic ot go after photoshopped picutres. are u suggesting breast jobs and stuff like that???!!! b/c i wud seriously vomit if i found out that yeshiva bucharim wud care that the girl is a B and not a perfect 32D! and someone who has a normal nose doesn’t need a fake one! i think a girl should do her eyebrows, wax any facial hair, wear a normal amount of makeup and flattering clothing but if our buchorim (and mother in laws) are basing it on that alone then im sorry some priorites MUST be straightened out!
I think that the backlash is an overreaction. I also think the article is an overreaction. This whole shebang is a sad commentary on how our society has declined into overreaction-ism.
I stand by my post in the other thread. I preface with the fact that yes, I read the article.
“Ugghhhh…. Ewwww…..
This is making me despair for the time when I will be in shidduchim;.
You see, I am not at all pretty. I am not thin, I have gross hair, I have a terrible nose, I have a really bad-looking face. I’m not just saying things out of insecurity; it’s true. And until I read this article I didn’t feel too bad about it.
Okay, so I try to look my prettiest when I need to go places. I don’t wear make-up or anything, but I wear nice clothes, and I never felt I needed much more than that. I never felt THAT gross. Thank you, Mrs. Halberstam, for making me feel like a future spinster mutant freak.
No, everyone, you don’t need to arrange for a psychiatrist. I’m okay. But this article is just disgusting. It should come with a tagline FWD TO ALL GIRLS WHO NEED A GOOD BOUT OF DEPRESSION.
Like my grandmother said, “There are seven people who will ALWAYS, no matter what, think you are a sheine meidel- your grandparents, your parents, and one day your husband.”
So yeah, Mrs. Halberstam, one day, most if not all of these girls will get married. Maybe they’ve just put on their mother-in-law-like-her repellent— no makeup. Smart of them. “
Honestly, I’m getting scared. Life stinks.
This whole shebang is a sad commentary on how our society has declined into overreaction-ism.
This is why you got nominated.
As biggest cynic, you mean?
I’m going to completely ignore the article and address writersoul.
– you have nothing to worry about, and you should never let these thoughts let you down. You are Hashem’s daughter and he created you the perfect way he wanted you to be for you to live your life in this world. (For 120 years IYH). So, please, next time you are feeling down, lift your head up, and smile because…. You are His Princess, and He knows what’s best for you; and when time for shidduchim come, He will only get a true Prince for his Princess.
Oomis: Actually, I did understand your point. Your posts are very clear and intelligent. As for Mrs. Mandelbaum, I’m not so sure your view and her view are necessarily the same. Of course maybe it is, but somehow I got the idea that it’s not. And you’re right, that before I comment I should read the article. But honestly, I have no desire to. (I don’t even know where the article was written)
You mentioned she would be wise to put on a little makeup, comb her hair nicely, and wear attractive clothing. Somehow I got the feeling that Mrs. Mandelbaum was overacting. Comb their hair nicely? Where are these girls from, outer space? I don’t know Mrs. Mandelbaum, but if she can suggest plastic surgery, then in my view, she is overreacting, and likely overreacting over all that she saw. I walk in the streets of flatbush, and from what I see, the girls dress decent, they wear makeup, and their hair is combed nicely. And this is not when they are going to meet mothers! She is stating her own opinion, but that doesn’t mean other mothers there didn’t see a total different scene.
When my daughter was in shidduchim, a shadchen called me to tell me what the mother of a boy’s impression was about my daughter’s picture. The mother had said “well, her hair isn’t styled with the lastest style, but it looks neat and nice anyway, so I guess it’s ok.” Along with another such stupid comment, I right away told the shadchen, this shidduch is not for us.
As for plastic surgery, if a girl feels that SHE wants plastic surgery, that is her choice. I know of two people who had nose jobs. One got it at 14, because she begged her parents to get it for her. She did not do it to get a shidduch obviously. The other one had begged her parents, but they were not willing, and so she got it after she got married – which means it didn’t shter her shidduch prospects (she’s actually gorgeous). The fact that Mrs. Mandelbaum got it because she felt unattractive, is her prerogative. But she did it because she felt unattractive, not because she had to fear not getting a shidduch.
And the fact that many others get plastic surgery without my knowledge is perfectly fine. But to write an article suggesting girls to seek it if their looks are not perfect, that is something I don’t think is so fine.
I believe all these girls will find their bashert. They will find husbands who will find them beautiful even if some other people don’t.
While your posts are well written, what annoyed me was that you admit that today’s day people are concerned with this nonsense, yet you think it’s fine for someone to write an article encouraging the nonsense. Of course, it’s true that girls should take care of their appearance when they are in marriageable age, and it’s a mother’s job to make sure that that happens. I believe most do. There are those that don’t. If she just said what you said she would be wise to put on a little makeup, comb her hair nicely, and wear attractive clothing, I highly doubt the backlash would be the same, and if it is indeed as mild as that, then I admit my criticism is misplaced. And then I don’t understand why you call it an unfortunate attitude of today’s day. My guess is this has always applied.
Again, I did not read the article. But does it say anywhere in the article that mothers should look past a girl’s appearance and see who the girl really is? Does it say to have in mind that one day these girls will look like them (who you say are not such groiseh metzias themselves)? Does it say to look for real compatibility besides looking how the girl looks?
I wonder what the other mothers and girls in attendance have to say about this event. Did they see what Mrs. Mandelbaum saw?
The entire concept of girls meeting with the mothers of boys is off the charts ridiculous.
“While your posts are well written, what annoyed me was that you admit that today’s day people are concerned with this nonsense, yet you think it’s fine for someone to write an article encouraging the nonsense. Of course, it’s true that girls should take care of their appearance when they are in marriageable age, and it’s a mother’s job to make sure that that happens. I believe most do. There are those that don’t. If she just said what you said she would be wise to put on a little makeup, comb her hair nicely, and wear attractive clothing, I highly doubt the backlash would be the same, and if it is indeed as mild as that, then I admit my criticism is misplaced. And then I don’t understand why you call it an unfortunate attitude of today’s day. My guess is this has always applied.”
I don’t think it’s fine for either this to be the prevailing attitude OR for such an article to NEED to be written. The fact is that she was commenting abotu what she observed. That was her right. She feels that the girls need to fahpitz when meeting the people who may be a strong deciding factor and have great impact on their marriageability. Can we agree that all girls, beautiful, plain, and homely (by subjective criteria, always) should make the most of what Hashem gave them?
It was never suggested that ANY girl get the type of plastic surgery enhancement that was mentioned. A nose job, or fixing a receeding chin, is not the same as getting liposuction and altering the shape of things that bochurim should not be even looking at. And btw, that is not what Mrs. M. said. She was talking primarily about her own nose job, and suggesting that if a big nose is holding a girl back from being redt shidduchim, that she should not be afraid of the possibility of correcting it surgically. She did not advocate for plastic surgery across the board. I believe she might have stated that her nose was hindering her own shidduch situation, and she was so happy with the end result.
I believe this attitude is new, in the sense that when I was dating, no mother would have DARED to ask for a picture of the girl OR boy. A blind date was just that – no forwarning. At least those girls were being set up. Nowadays, there has been so MUCH emphasis on looks that we have an epidemic of frum girls with eating disorders, trying to become the size that has taken the palce of NORMAL. I think it is sick. But I also cannot hide my head int he sand. It is a fact of life that this is what is being normatized in the frum world. Until the Rabbanim and the Roshei Yeshivah instruct their bochurim to actually look beyond the “look” of a girl, the situtation will unfortunately remain the same as it is today. I do not think it is great to encourage this nonsense, but it is here to stay, at least for now, and you need to deal with life as it is, not as you wish it were.
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