- This topic has 57 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 7 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
There seems to be a catchy spiritual disease about coming on time to mincha on erev shabbos. It seems that the medicine for that is easy to take. It’s called “mindset”.What we mean by that is: Every one knew that this past Shabbos lighting time was 502 or approximately at that time. Why then did people arrive to mincha at 504 when mincha was scheduled for lighting time. Now there seems to be a justification to this: The people didn’t know “exactly” what time mincha started. In truth, this is no excuse, because when you don’t know, then you find out. In addition, if there is no way to find out exactly what time davening starts then you are supposed to arrive early.When the Melech Malchei Hamlochim is waiting for us to show up, that’s not a good sign. I trust that the people reading this article won’t just read it, they will actually do something about it.
thinkstraight: not everybody is able to make it on time.$
ThinkStraight, a groyse shkoyach for the chizuk.
Be Dan L’Kaf Zechus:
People sometimes run late — it happens.
Not everyone has an atomic clock — perhaps by their clock, they thought they were on time.
Perhaps “life” interfered — you’re ready to go to shul when your eight year old can’t find his shoes. The ten minute search makes everyone late.
Perhaps they *didn’t* know that lighting was exactly at 5:02. Perhaps they actually thought it was 5:04 — not every calendar has the exact same minute for candle lighting.
And there are probably dozens of other reasons. Yes, the ideal is to come on time; but sometimes life interferes with the best laid plans of mice and men.
The Wolf
I actually don’t like that the shul I daven in has mincha at candlelighting time. Most shuls have it 5 minutes later.
A bigger question is why a rav needs to shlep out Seuda Shlishis when people are waiting to daven Maariv.
Think Straight – I really try to be punctual for Shabbat- This past Shabbat, I had my food on the Blech and the plata an hour before Candle lighting. I really tried, just things happen. The shirt’ button just happened to come off and well, I really do try. I am pushing my family out to shul, even before candlelighting, is it my fault that they don’t want to go yet?? I don’t think you should judge. It’s not like we are sitting around all day Erev Shabbos.
If YOU want to get to Shul and have the very big Zechut of being part of the first of the Minyan, well good for you. It’s is very hard though and there is something called the “Yetzer Hara” that does a pretty good job compounding the problem of preparing for Shabbat.
Yossiea, the answer to your question is that there is a mitzvah of Tosefes Shabbos, of adding on to Shabbos to show how much we treasure it.
Thank you ThinkStraight.
Sometimes the Home Front needs attention. Are any of you married with small children?
My husband and I both work Fridays. We get home fairly close to shabbos (we take off as early as possible, but its really hard to miss so much work every day). No matter how much we prepare Thursday night, there are a million little things that cropup just before Shabbos. My husband is generally there on time, but sometimes I need a little extra help from him in those last five minutes to make sure that I can light in a proper time.
ThinkStraight: you wrote, “If things just happen to come up at lighting time, then you know it’s the yetzer hora!”
This reminds me of an incident involving Hillel HaZakain. A man repeatedly interrupted his Shabbos preparations to ask him silly, even insulting questions. Hillel did not yell at the man, but just calmly answered his questions each time. The man later admitted that he’d made a bet with someone that he could anger Hillel, but of course was unsuccessful.
So perhaps when “things just happen to come up” at candle lighting, it is indeed the yetzer hora, testing one’s ability to handle problems patiently and calmly.
What I find interesting is that no matter WHAT time Shabbos starts, some people are never ready. Whether it’s 4:10 or 8:10 PM, there is always something they forgot to do. That’s why we began taking the early Shabbos in the summer, even though my family are all adults, so we are conditioned to being ready an hour earlier. Some people are always going to have time issues.
Jothar,
That’s why we light 18-40 minutes early.
If things just happen to come up at lighting time, then you know it’s the yetzer hora!
One week it’ll be looking for shoes, the next it will be a shirt button.
Just out of curiosity, are you saying that the Yetzer Harah hides kids shoes or loosens buttons?
The Wolf
ThinkStraight: “If things just happen to come up at lighting time, then you know it’s the yetzer hora!”
I think you mean “it’s the Satan!” The Satan works much harder on erev Shabbos to find things for us to do and cause Chillul Shabbos and also gets very involved in Shalom Bais issues.
I once heard of a “s’gula” for Shalom Bais for Shabbos: Sharpen your knives erev Shabbos by rubbing two knife blades against each another. I thought of a “s’vara” for this “s’gula”. Anyone want to venture an opinion?
The wolf,
everything in life is controlled from above, even something as petty as a missing shoe or loose button. The gemara says that if you reach into your pocket and grab the wrong coin, it is min hashamayim.
Charlie Brown,
Thanks, but that doesn’t answer my question. I asked if he thinks the Yetzer Hora is misplacing his sons’ shoes.
The Wolf
wolf,
I’ll spell it out. Yes, the yetzer Horah is causing the shoes to be lost, either by putting it in your son’s head to throw them behind the fridge or by making you not see them even though they’re in the middle of the room.
Okay, so if the YH is going to put it into my kid’s head to throw his shoes behind the fridge five minutes before shul starts, what do you propose we do about it?
IOW, if the YH puts us in a position where there is no alternative but to miss shul, then how are we punishable? How it is a sin in any way. Or, to use a more extreme case — if I’m learning with a chavrusa and he has a heart attack (God forbid), then you can attribute it to the YH — but is it really then a sin to stop learning to take him to the hospital? Of course not — and that being the case, then what has the YH accomplished — no one sinned.
The Wolf
cherrybim, aren’t the satan and the yetzer hora are one and the same?
moish01:
Yes (Bava Basra end of first Perek, by Iyov)
Wolf:
No one is talking about punishment. Either you are an Ones, or you are not. Sometimes it is a test to show up on time, and sometimes its a test if you are willing to be late and take care of something more important than being on time. You have to think “what does Hashem want me to be doing now”, and then go do it with all your might (even if it means missing minyan).
wolfish,
if your son throws his shoes behind the fridge then you’re right that you didn’t do an aveirah, you were an ones. Maybe he was testing you to see of you’d beat up your kid or yell at your wife due to the stress of being delayed by the missing shoe. But if he threw his shoe 3 hours earlier and nobody noticed until 5 minutes before shul then perhaps you’re not an ones because you should have made sure your kids were ready earlier just in case.
btw, I hope it doesn’t sound like I’m talking down to you. I’m talking to myself too. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been late to mincha on erev shabbos because one of my sons was missing his shoes or coat.
gavra- very healthy outlook on life
areivimzehlazeh: Thank you
cherrybim: As I pointed out, the gemorah says they (STN, YH, MM) are all the same entity (I believe 16A, but may be off by a daf or two).
gavra_at_work: I know that Gemorra, but it’s not so poshit and I was trying to make it work; i.e.; The Satan and the Malach Hamaves are distinctive entities with missions whereas the Yetzer Hara is a personal force.
cherrybim:
external vs. internal YH & the Eitz HaDaas (eating it brought YH internally, but there still is an external “Malach”)
After that it gets too Kabbalistic for me.
gavra, rav dessler in kuntris habchira? as far as i remember that’s where he talks about the internal vs. external.
moish01:
Sorry not up my alley. I just remember it as an explanation for the gemorah (I had the same question). If you know more please feel free to post/start a new topic.
no thanks i’ll pass
ThinkStraight
I agree with you completely that this is the way we should all be. However do you or anyone else here have suggestions for those who have jobs plus a commute home and can’t get home and start preparing for shabbos at chatzos. How do we avoid that last minute frenzy?
charles:
Prepare thursday night 🙂
GAW,
some thing you can do thursday night some you can’t. I don’t think my kids suit will be in one piece by shabbos if I have him get dressed in it on thursday night. 🙂
CB:
Of course it wont.
is it true that in Israel all stores close by chatzos?
areivim, no
I think it’s true for Yerushalayim, or at least geula area
no it’s not. i’ve been to israel a million times and geula closes a few hours before shabbos. in the summer it’s definitely opened past chatzos.
ok- can’t call myself the Israel pro, but I’ve heard it said many times
charlie,
Leaving work early enough on Friday to allow sufficient time to fully be prepared for Shabbos prior to the Zman.
Joseph:
For many jobs it is not possible to do so without rushing (you still will be fully prepared, but things will be hectic).
areivimzehlazeh:
Geulah is open after Chatzos on Friday.
Joseph,
I’ll agree with gavra on this. Even non-jews around the NY area know that shabbos begins at sundown, so if you don’t have a super accomodating boss, you could be risking your job by leaving very early. They will feel like you’re just using shabbos as an excuse to get extra time off.
ThinkStraight:
Then we are early and make early shabbos!
As a side point (related). I have heard in Lakewood they have early shabbos during the winter. Is this true?
thinkstraight- yes, yes & yes. I’ve heard & seen many yeshuos come about as a result of being ready for shabbos just a few minutes earlier (not huffing and puffing when the bell rings= d’zman). Of course, nobody can make cheshboinos & say what caused the yeshuah to happen, but this definitely helped…
Why are the people who come late when Shabbos is 4pm also do so when it is at 8.
I wonder if those who come late are generally the people who always work late on Fridays. Since their work schedule changes with the seasons (meaning, in summer they work later on Fridays), it still makes sense. I also wonder if people with two working parents in the family also have more trouble coming on time.
My theory is that generally, people with two working parents have less time on Friday to do all the small details. I know that on Fridays that my husband is off (he works every other Friday), we are ready on time and my husband is at shul on time (although our shul davens a few minutes after candle lighting). Its the weeks where he works that there are often last minute things that need taking care of.
assur to come late on any day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
torahtziva: really, care to quote us a source.$
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.