Public menorah lightings and rooftop menorahs

You would be surprised how many Jews live in hick towns. Or whose only connection to Judaism might be that shopping center menorah. If even one of those menorahs inspires even one lost Jew to become closer to Judaism it will have been worth the effort.

There are cars and minivans parked near Chabad houses throughout the world this week with menorahs on the roof. I guess these are owned by the same “idiots” who drive around with a small succhah on the back of a flatbed truck or Your respect for other yidden continues to shine through

There are two ways you could find an explanation for this practice:
1. By posting it on this site,
2. Visiting imatroll.com

As Charlie said, there are Jews out there. The proof – you apparently saw them, unless it is a purely theoretical complaint!

Seriously, we discussed already how these chabadnikim are almost the only ones doing something for the millions of disappearing Jews, so let’s discuss whether they are has vesholom doing too much.

Lol, I hope you’re nicer than this in person!

There actually is a story that just happened about someone who converted out of yiddishkeit and called up a shliach if he could undo the conversion, when the shliach asked him what happened he said that he saw a menorah on top of a car and it awakened something within.
But of course there are always those people that are embarrassed of their yiddishkeit and cringe when they see a menorah proudly displayed on a car…

Ok, I brought you a case where something very positive came out of it and now you bring me a true story where someone thought we were missionising or something of that sort, i would say that only yidden would feel that way, goyim would say how it’s so cool etc.

Many jews find the over symbolizing of chanukah to be tawdry and even offensive, mimicing the symbols of other holidays.

Neo-Chabad and its supporters seem to believe in utilitarianism. If something good comes out of it, it shows that the thing itself is right, and that any and all criticism in invalid and merely due to hatred or jealousy. This is not a Jewish attitude.

By contrast, genuine daas torah can be seen from the satmar rov; he used to say “m’darf tuhn, m’darf nisht oftuhn”, we need to do, not accomplish”, meaning we do whatever halacha and mesorah dictate for us to do, and leave the results up to Hashem. Hashem is more than able to inspire jews to do teshuva. Every time a yid watches his eyes on the street, walks in jewish garb (how many times has an old russian man/lady stopped you to ask you when to say yizkor?), gives a passerby a smile, picks up a dollar that fell out of someone’s pocket…the list goes on. Just doing mitzvos and serving Hashem will inspire people.

I think letting a driver pull out of a parking spot instead of whizzing by, letting someone change lanes, and other chessed driving will be a lot more inspiring to unobservant jews than a decoration on a car. The impact of a positive experience is very powerful. Far more people become religious by seeing what religion does to people, how Torah makes its folllwers compassionate, considerate, and sensitive to others’ needs and feelings. Being concerned more with making a” kidush chabad” than actually helping others is something that needs to be rooted out and acknowledged as a chisaron that’s being avoided.

CS

Your last “proof” proves nothing

“I challenge you to show proof of similar actions prior to 50 years ago”

There were just as many Goyisher symbols prior to 50 years ago. So obviously competing with them can’t be the reason (using your “logic”)/

Whatever explanation you have for why NOW they feel the need to compete can be used to explain why we have not seen The Chofetz Chayim et al doing it

Anyway, electric menorahs is a problem of lacking a shiur, so people might think that this is being lit for the mitzva even if one is lighting correctly inside.

Reb E, there’s also no wick, that’s l”ikuva. That’s why a kerosene lamp is not good either

Commonsaychel is right; there’s no record of people lighting anywhere besides their home and shul..pirsumei nisa is a requirement of ner chanuka, but not something you are yotzei with anything other than the halacha of ner ish ubayso.

Shul is established in the rishonim, but you’re not yotzei through lighting there; it’s a minhag, but we can’t invent new minhagim based loosely on it

Avira

much better. Thanks

> Shul is established in the rishonim,

Obviously, we were not able to light publicly in most countries for last millenia … we even moved menorahs from outside to inside. Does anyone light new publicly in, say, Paris, where reportedly Jews do not walk publicly in kipah? I can’t find an example of a society where Jews had a status to light in public, so this seems to be a novel question for today’s society.

Common, I agree with the sentiment on humility,. I am not saying one should do this. Just saying it is a new question that was not entertained before, so we can’t answer by saying that Yitzele Peterburger didn’t light by the czar.

there is not much difference – Both religious education and equal access to town hall relate to the first Amendment. In both cases, the opponents are those who mis-interpret equal access to “no religion” (i.e. no funds for religious institutions and no reiligious symbols at town hall). AND in both cases, when you advocate for things that a big chunk of population does not like (covidike schols and public menorahs) there is a price to pay for demanding the rights. Specific heshbon what we gain v. what we lose may be a subject of disagreement. To the school side, as you are say, they are defending freedoms they had while public menorah is invading public sphere. To the other side, schools seem to solve health-freedom dilemmas to their own financial benefit while people with menorahs have a passion for pirsumei nisa. Not an easy kal vahomer.

Always_Ask_Questions,

“Seriously, we discussed already how these chabadnikim are almost the only ones doing something for the millions of disappearing Jews, so let’s discuss whether they are has vesholom doing too much.”

AviraDeArah,

“Being concerned more with making a” kidush chabad” than actually helping others is something that needs to be rooted out and acknowledged as a chisaron that’s being avoided.”

Both of these statements are highly unfair. Chabad certainly is not the only group doing kiruv, and while reasonable discussion here on the CR is frequently lacking, there are real questions that do merit thoughtful discussion. For example, safety of highly public displays when Chabad menoras are being R”L trashed by antisemites, challenges of raising frum children outside of religious communities and surrounded by non-frum college students, etc.

And chesed is a primary motivator in Chabad’s mission. I have personally benefited from the chesed of chabad shluchim and have great hakaras hatov. The goal was helping with mitzvah observance on a practical level, not promoting Chabad ideology.

Avram, I think when commonsaychel made the remarks about humility, he was thinking using his jewish sensitivity….many people who support trump and/or conservativism in general, have a certain cognitive dissonance when it comes to contradictions to Torah in that community.

Yidden do chessed; that’s one of the 3 simanim. The problem is that chabad emphasizes it as part of their shlichus mission in an effort to spread neo-chabad ideology – they then use their chessed as an effective cajole to silence opposition, because how can you oppose people who do so much chessed? That’s one of their top 2 retorts to when someone even questions chabad or the lubavitcher rebbe.

If anyone’s noticed, i always refrain from calling the lubavitcher rebbe “the rebbe”, because it’s a tool chabad uses to aggrandize his status above other rebbes and rabbonim who were either as big or greater than him.

WB, ZD!

Avram > Chabad certainly is not the only group doing kiruv,

First Chabad does not do “kiruv”, they do no not (or at least not supposed to) look down at other Jewish people. Others have organizations that work on this. Most observant Jews, whether charedi or YI, go through their day without worrying much about their non-observant brothers. Jews used to have missions sometimes. For example, supporting Jews in EY, whether yeshivos or workers. There were wedding announcements in newspapers with a lists of guests and how much each donated for EY. The fate of disappearing Jews is not on the radar. This does not take away from shortcomings and problems that exist in the movement. but need to be modeh al haemes.

Sorry commonsaychel, looks like i believed the quote from you without looking it up – as such i owe you a bracha!

Of course all chasidim refer to their rebbe as “der rebbeh”. I did too when i davened in a chasidishe place with its own rebbe. I didn’t refer to my rebbeh as “the rebbe” if i was talking to someone outside of my shul, because he’s not the rebbeh of everyone. When chabad writes about “the rebbe”, they can be talking to goyim, and he’s “the rebbe”, because he’s everyone’s rebbeh, the “nasi hador”, a messianic candidate, and some say more.

“When chabad writes about “the rebbe”, they can be talking to goyim, and he’s “the rebbe”, because he’s everyone’s rebbeh, the “nasi hador”, a messianic candidate, and some say more.”
Are you agreeing with that statement you said? Why then are you saying it as if it’s true?

My rebbe is the lubavitcher rebbe, and in my world he is the rebbe. And in my view, he was the nasi hador when we were still zoche to have him alive physically. I’m not sure what kind of stuff ou know about the rebbe, but he cared about all the yidden. The other gedolim and tzadikim cared fore a lot of klal yisrael-or most of the frum- but not all. And that’s why the rebbe was so into kiruv and sent thousands of shluchim across the world to connect every jew with torah and mitzvos.
And if you don’t agree with that, then you don’t have to agree.

I’m just telling you why we think that the rebbe was the nasi hador. And you won’t really change our opinion no matter how many posts you write saying lubavitchers are wrong to believe in their rebbe as a great leader. Nobody is imposing on you that you have to call the lubavitcher rebbe “the rebbe”. Your now trying to impose on us that we can’t believe or say that the rebbe is the nasi hador. (Let alone the fact that some people view some gedolim as the Gedolei Hador and making everyone else view that the same way because he is is the gadol hador, and if anyone says that he isnt, that a different gadol is, then he is shaming the gadol hador! How dare he!)

Why didn’t you make this same point when referencing the flag waving motorcades here: https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/affinity-for-donald-trump

Are loud motorcades ok for a goyish politician, but not for Chanukah?

Chapped. 🔥🔥

I think both are wrong for the same reason, although arguably, the menorah has more of an upside.