Project Makom

There are a lot of American Chareidim living in Israel too, and I don’t think it is a smaller number/percentage than American MO living in Israel.

NC: I don’t think they went to a shul and counted/asked how many people left. IIRC it was done via phone surveys by asking questions such as about attending services and doing certain things on Shabbos or not. But I could be wrong. If I have the time I’ll try to find the info.

HaLeiVi: What do you think would be the best way to educate children about other communities?

In terms of educating kids about other communities.
Kids tend to think in absolute terms. Too many choices are not helpful- they need to have a strong identity and sense of belonging, pride in who they are, not confusion about different options.
Yet, that does not mean that they should not be aware that there are all types of Jews, with valid approaches to avodas Hashem, even if that approach is not one that is followed in their home/school. For starters, parents should not mock other types, put down other shitos. Also, it can be helpful to read books about other children from other backgrounds, living in different places, with different minhagim. I think it is healthy for a kid to grow up with the attitude, that this is the derech we have chosen to live by, this is the derech of our community, but other communities might have different derachim, and as long as we are all devoted to keeping Mitzvos and being ovdei Hashem, that is fine. Most kids will be happy to stay within their “box” , but for those kids who for some reason don’t fit the box, they will know that there are other legitimate boxes out there that may fit them better, and that their families will not think less of them if they choose a different box.

KJ: They can have Yiddish pen pals. Like between an American Chasidishe kid with a Yerushalmi Litvish kid.

That’s the point – to find the things in common, to show that among frum Jews-for example, even those coming from a Litvish Israeli community and a Chasidish community in Kiryat Yoel-, we have more that is the same about us than what is different.
By the way, I don’t think it is a good idea for mosdos of any kind to teach hashkafos of other communities- chinuch is not a multiple choice assignment. But exposure, or acknowledgment of the existence of other Torah-valid hashkafos can be done in an informal manner, like through the stories they read, the pictures of kids in their textbooks, etc. Unless you feel “my way is the only way, everything else is the same as Reform and therefore should not be acknowledged at all”, then of course someone who cannot live that way would become not frum- afterall, that’s the message he got his entire life.

WTP – beautiful posts, and beautifully phrased! Shkoyach!

I would like to add something that I think people should be careful about:

One has to think carefully about how to present things. There can be groups or individuals who call themselves “Orthodox” but have attitudes that are more problematic than Secular precisely because they consider themselves and their hashkafos to be Orthodox, and the parents may not want their children to consider those hashkafos to be legitimate.

It is unlikely that the children will become Reform in any case. What usually happens (from what I’ve seen in my work with kids-at-risk) is that they become less Frum or not-Frum but their hashkafos are still intact and they still view the Chareidi way as the right way, and their aspiration is to eventually go back to becoming Chareidi again, once they have worked out their psychological issues. And often, they do come back.

And even if they never end up going back to keeping everything, it is worse to be an apikorus than to not keep Mitzvos.

On the other hand, there may be hashkafos that they consider to be “less legitimate” than their own, but not completely illegitimate, and they should make sure that their kids realize that those hashkafos are not like Reform and not “off-the-map”.

I’m deliberately not getting into examples, and I’m not saying it’s always clear which hashkafos belong in which category. The point is that it’s not black-and-white (in either direction). The fact that a group calls itself Orthodox doesn’t necessarily mean that it is legitimate. And one has to think carefully about how to present these things to his children.

If it’s not clearly wrong, you shouldn’t teach your children that it’s clearly wrong, but if it’s not clearly right, you can’t teach them that it’s okay, even if it is called Orthodox.

LU
this is not a dissertation there is no ned to dissect phrases. context is key. Read it in context. This is a discussion about Project Makom. A group that helps chasidim who feel that their upbringing is too restrictive leave their group. That is what they do, and this is what is being discussed.
There is another group called Footsteps which has a somewhat similar goal but makes pushes them to abandon Yidishkeit in the process, “it makes them frei”.

Project MAkom, on the other hand “helps them become modox. which is not as bad as frei.”

You say “means that it is bad to be Modern Orthodox, but it is not as bad as being Frei.” Yes as IVe said, Sadigurerebbe does maintain that for someone born chassdiish it “is bad to be Modern Orthodox, but it is not as bad as being Frei.” He is abandoning his roots this isnt a good thing.

“If someone wanted to say that becoming Modern Orthodox is not as bad as becoming Frei, the correct way to phrase that would be”

Nu nu so it was worded poorly, thats why Im glad to explain it to you. Is this really the first poorly worded post yovuve come across? This is one of your stranger assertions.

“And either way, nothing was said about Chassidim. ” Um wrong, that is whom Project makom deals with, and thus whom this entire thread (see the title) is discussing.

If you never heard of Project Makom, no problem. Just ask what it is , or dont comment at all . There is no law requiring you to argue with any post particularly if you dont know what is being discussed.