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“The guy” who the holiday is named after is a rasha merusha burning in gehenim ad hoyom hazeh in who’s name much much Jewish blood has been spilled.
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Joseph, im not saying your wrong but im just wondering if you have a source to back up your claim that yoshko is”burning in gehinom ad hayom hazeh”?Takes2, do you need a source, too, that Hitler ym’s is burning in gehinom ad hayom hazeh? Hitler is a talmid of cheese ‘n crackers. For 2000 years Jews have been burnt at the stake, and all sorts of evil vicious murderous persecutions in his name, because of the religion, or whatever you want to call the thing/teachings, that he started/initiated/organized.
Joseph. Why dont u provide a source instead oof trying to back peddle? I asked u a simple wuestion
I hope RebYidd23 was either responding to me, or on the same subject. Since on the 26th, is when I get the emails and advertisements that the holiday season is over. So happy holiday (singular) doesn’t even include the new year anymore!!
Of course, if I want to keep going into the new version of this whole season and expression, I find the term “Black November” appalling and depressing too.I don’t know if it’s good or bad, or sad that everyone here seems more versed in the holidays of December than everyone in Marketing or out on the streets seem to.
There’s no backpedaling. I am reaffirming what I originally stated.
Btw, where other than the coffee room can a random new poster ask a question on a comment someone made nine years earlier, and actually get an answer from him!
Joseph ill ask my question again in 9 years from now . Perhaps u will have an answer then. So for now i will take it that you have
no source and your just making up stuff as you go along ,as usual.Emails I got just said stuff like “Happy Holidays! You know what always gets us in a festive mood? Wearing our Microsilk Modern Necktie to parties! Available in red and green or blue and white.”
The person most responsible for christianity spreading was not the person “born on December 25th”, but rather saul of Tarsus (The Aposle Paul) who actually never met the man “born on December 25th”
The mamzer wasn’t born on December 25th. That date was conveniently used to co-opt a pagan holiday on that date, when the Christians were trying to convert the pagans.
Takes2
The source is Gittin57aBecause of this pig and the pigs in the Jewish world it is now interchangeable, merry Chanukah merry Christmas same thing we turned a kulo ruchni yomtov into a “merry” holiday so let ok’ing at all the disgusting ads for donuts is worse than lights because we know our limits but with donuts we are being blinded that that’s what Chanukah is about
LC: Paul built it on Yushke Pundrik’s foundation.
Solaro
The source is Gittin57a—————————–
Im out of town now with no accsess to a shas.
Can you please quote the actual text of the gemoro?Which town lacks a copy of a Shas?!?
Any town that doesn’t allow s forum or smartphones
וְשֵׁם אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים לֹא תַזְכִּירוּ לֹא יִשָּׁמַע עַל פִּיךָ” (שמות כ”ג, יג
I dont know all the halochos but isn’t this posuk the reason we say xmas and not use the name jc ?
And if yidden never said or wrote his name out but called him yoshke then there must have been good reason for it.And for the person who mentioned not using Hitler’s name etc I know that there were many gedolim at that time who didn’t mention his name .One was R Aron of Belz and I think one of the readons were not to give “koiach”to the sitra acrah or something like that
The source is Gittin57a
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Perhaps your seeing something that im not seeing. Care to highlight the text?Frumroshyeshiva, calling someone a pig is chukas hagoy. (t)
Frumroshyeshiva, calling someone a pig is chukas hagoy. (t)
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Since when do goyim own the rights of using the word PIG?Just want to point out that x-mas is not a “kosher” version of the real name. X is actually the Greek letter chi, which is short for christ, meaning anointed one. So saying christmas or xmas is the same thing, just one is short-hand. Calling Yoshke anointed one is obviously against the Torah. I don’t think JC is any better than the full version, it still gives credence to the moshiach claim. Names such as Chris, Chirstina and the religion known as Christianity are of course all derivatives of the same. and a little known fact- the phrase “gee whiz” or other use of the word “gee” is derived from Yoshka’s name as well.
So how WOULD be the appropriate way to say his name?
I will repeat there is no difference between xmas and christmas. The X in Xmas did not come from a Rav, but is rather comes from the Greek Letter Kai which looks like an X and it is short for “Our lord and Savior”
This is from the Holy Book of Wikipedia, but it is well known
Xmas is a common abbreviation of the word Christmas. It is sometimes pronounced /ˈɛksməs/, but Xmas, and variants such as Xtemass, originated as handwriting abbreviations for the typical pronunciation /ˈkrɪsməs/. The “X” comes from the Greek letter Chi, which is the first letter of the Greek word Χριστός, which in English is “Christ”.[1] The “-mas” part is from the Latin-derived Old English word for Mass.[2]
There is a common misconception that the word Xmas stems from a secular attempt to remove the religious tradition from Christmas[3] by taking the “Christ” out of “Christmas”, but its use dates back to the 16th century.
“Onkelos then went and raised J the Nazarene from the grave through necromancy. Onkelos said to him: Who is most important in that world where you are now? J said to him: The Jewish people. Onkelos asked him: Should I then attach myself to them in this world? J said to him: Their welfare you shall seek, their misfortune you shall not seek, for anyone who touches them is regarded as if he were touching the apple of his eye.
Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for J himself, in the next world? J said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement. As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages. The Gemara comments: Come and see the difference between the sinners of Israel and the prophets of the nations of the world. As Balaam, who was a prophet, wished Israel harm, whereas J the Nazarene, who was a Jewish sinner, sought their well-being.”
Translation from Sefaria.
So how would be the appropriate way to say that holiday?
If you do not wish to give anything of significance to that day but still want people to know what you mean, Simply Say December 25. I think everyone knows what you mean
Takes2:
אזל אסקיה [ליש”ו] בנגידא (לפושעי ישראל) א”ל מאן חשיב בההוא עלמא א”ל ישראל מהו לאדבוקי בהו א”ל טובתם דרוש רעתם לא תדרוש כל הנוגע בהן כאילו נוגע בבבת עינו
א”ל דיניה דההוא גברא במאי א”ל בצואה רותחת דאמר מר כל המלעיג על דברי חכמים נידון בצואה רותחת תא חזי מה בין פושעי ישראל לנביאי אומות העולם עובדי ע”ז
Takes2, you think chukas hagoy is about goyim owning copyrights?
December 14, 2017 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm
Josephאזל אסקיה [ליש”ו] בנגידא (לפושעי ישראל) א”ל מאן חשיב בההוא עלמא א”ל ישראל מהו לאדבוקי בהו א”ל טובתם דרוש רעתם לא תדרוש כל הנוגע בהן כאילו נוגע בבבת עינו
א”ל דיניה דההוא גברא במאי א”ל בצואה רותחת דאמר מר כל המלעיג על דברי חכמים נידון בצואה רותחת תא חזי מה בין פושעי ישראל לנביאי אומות העולם עובדי ע”ז
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Joseph,
Thanx for the text but no where does it say here that yoshko is in gehinom עד יום הזה.
It talk about פושאי ישראל in general but nothing about your claim that yoshko is in gehinom עד יום הזה. Not that it make a difference to me but you said it with such conviction that you actually said it with out a doubt on your mind.…Hitler’s name etc I know that there were many gedolim
at that time who didn’t mention his name. One was R Aron
of Belz and I think one of the readons were not to give
“koiach” to the sitra acrah or something like thatYes, but that was when Hitler was alive.
So how WOULD be the appropriate way to say his name?
“You-Know-Who,” or “He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named,” of course.
Joseph:
Perhaps Zahavasdad was using quotations because
he already knew that You-Know-Who was not born
on December 25th?
T22T said he was out of town, not in a town.What if your neighbor’s yard looks like it should
have a store selling inflatable things behind it?Takes2, you think Yoshka was in gehenom during the times of the Gemorah but got an early release/get out of jail free card between the time of the Gemorah and now?
They, the lights are everywhere where I am. First, since sometime in AUGUST, orange and black were everywhere. Around Rosh Hashanah, red and green started, in addition. After a while the orange and black started to be phased out,( a few days or more after their purpose was done), and red and green increased all over. Red and green and their associated lights continue here for quite a while. Last year I was still seeing a few displays as late as Purim! I personally call the lights GOYIM LIGHTS. (this year I actually saw orange lights for a time, before they may have been changed to red and green).
December 25 was a Roman holiday to observe the birthday of their avodah zarah sun g-d. (also was part of many other cultures such as Norse legends) The most common theory is that the one whom they revere, was born sometime in the Spring, probably around Pesach. How did we get such a change in dates? Very simple. The original calendar in use by the Romans at that time, had only 300 days, of which the Roman aristocracy celebrated about 270 of them as holidays. Regular people, plebians as they were called, worked on these days. Around the time of Julius and Augustus Caesar, the calendar had 60 days added to it as an adjustment to better equate it with the seasons. The two new added months were called JULY and AUGUST, after these two. In Latin….Sept is 7, Oct is 8, Nov is 9 and lastly, Dec is 10, reflecting the original calendar in Roman times. Now….if a year lasts only 300 days…..imagine what would happen…..that is exactly WHAT DID happen in the earlier days…..resulting in complete confusion as to dates. That is why the goyim adopted their own official religious calendars which were much more standardized and accurate. Religious goyim were usually the most learned people. So, they were much aware of what was realty. But, It still took quite a long time to fully adjust a solar based calendar to 365 days. The Romans were somewhat closer when they added the two extra months, increasing the year to 360 days, they were still sort….by 5 or so days. Only us Yidden, had an accurate calendar, and we could NOT care less about the actual birthday of the one whom the goyim look up to.Takes2
“It talk about פושאי ישראל in general”
Look at מסורת הש״סIf you want to say the leader of Nazi Germany. You can easily say the ruler of Germany from 1933-1945 or the head ot Nazi Gemany or something similar without mentioning anyone’s name
an accurate calendar that is 11 days short of a solar year and that pretends that in chutz learetz we don’t know when yom tov begins
1. It’s not a solar calendar. (Our full calendar does match up nicely
with solar years, as you already know.)
2. Yom Tov Sheni has nothing to do with calendar accuracy.an accurate calendar that is 11 days short of a solar year and that pretends that in chutz learetz we don’t know when yom tov begins
It’s accurate. The chachomim were well aware of the solar calendar (certain dinim are based on it) and put in leap years so that it remains in sync over the long term.
No, we don’t pretend anything, but we do still keep two days. Learn the sugya if you’re interested to know why.
DY, I have learned the sugya and I keep the sfaka; however the reasons are just justifications for not making a change
DY, actually my comment re 11 days off was a somewhat sarcastic response to a poster’s claim that only Yidden jfkad an accurate calendar. The Mesopotamians not only had the a lunar calendar with leap months as needed ( just like ours ) but many of our month’s names were bborrowed by Ezra from the Babylonian calendar ( Tammuz is the name of a Babylonian war god )
Regarding not learning on the evening of Dec 24th, my Rebbe told me the reason we don’t learn between Mincha and midnight is because JC in in hell and it is at this time that he begs for mercy and reminds Hashem that he is a yid. The heavenly court then looks down and sees none of the yids learning so JC’s argument gains him no mercy.
May we all be blessed with revealed good and joy!
Rav Avigdor Miller on Yoshkeh’s Frumkeit
Q: The Rav said tonight that Yoshkeh was basically an observant Jew and that it was only the later Christians who created a new religion. But then why is Yoshkeh called a מסית in the Gemara?
A: Yoshkeh was considered a מסית because he ridiculed the חכמים and encouraged the ridicule of the חכמים. And anyone who ridicules the Torah leaders is חייב מיתה. We know that כל העובר על דברי חכמים חייב מיתה – “If someone is going to disregard the words of the chachomim, then he is deserving of death” (Brachos 4b).The חכמי התורה are the light of our eyes. They are the עיני העדה, the eyes of our people. A loyal Jew views the world through the eyes of the חכמים. And if a fellow in the street is walking around with a few bums following him, and he’s making jokes against the חכמים and ridiculing them and encouraging others to ridicule them, then he has lost his right to exist. That’s a מסית.
But did Yoshkeh himself worship avodah zarah? No, no. He wouldn’t even think of avodah zarah. You have to know that he was a Jew. And if sometimes you find statements that are attributed to him that seem to imply differently, those may be due to the later writers who put things into his mouth as if he said it. But it’s not מסתבר that he said it. No, it’s not logical that those are his words. Because we know that he was a Jew. He said the following – and I’m telling you what it says in the New Testament – “If anyone were to oppose even a jot or a tittle of what’s in the Torah” – that means even a yud or a tag – “then that man has no place in this world.”
All Jews were like that in ancient times. Only that he opposed the חכמים. And that we know. We know that he opposed the חכמי התורה and tried to rally people to this cause. And that is a tremendous עבירה, a terrible sin. That’s why we call him a מסית.
TAPE # E-186 (April 1999)
To anyone looking at this thread in 2018, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with looking at Christmas lights. They’re lights. They’re pretty. It’s not a conversion.
If you don’t pronounce the name of Kratzmich or use the nickname then you showing holiness in the name.
Xmas lights don’t bother me. What bothers me is when there is a menora next to the tree.
What about Channuka lights, like those big decorations that look exactly like X-Mas lights except they’re blue and/or in the shape of a menora? Like putting a fake menora on your car?
If they are UV or laser then yes, problem to look directly at them.
The calendar was changed by Pope Gregory in 1582 by removing 11 days and changing the leap year rule that complete centuries are only leap years divisable by 400. So kratzmich is not nitel but Jan 6.
As a kid we always went to the firehouse to see the train garden. To this day many frum still go. As for lights we always enjoyed them and would drive around to see them. Why not? As for saying Christmas again why not? It is the name if the holiday after all.
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