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Thank You, moishy. And that really puts a stop to this conversation, because we dare not argue with HIM, huh ?
Is the halacha about getting drunk on Purim different for a 13 year old than for a 23 year old? Does anyone have a source that the halacha is different based on age?
Yes, its a b’feirushe se’if in the Fifth Shulchan Aruch.
That cheilek can be whatever you want it to be. Anything written?
It can’t be whatever you want, but I know what you mean.
I was trying to say that’s the only place you’ll find it.
YOU DON’T HAVE TO GET DRUNK IF YOU CAN’T!!!!!!
IT’S MORE IMPORTANT TO BE HEALTH-SAFE THAN TO GET DRUNK!!!!!!!
Wow, those capitals are really convincing!
Thanks for adding that brilliant, NEW twist to the conversation…
HaLeiVi: Can you explain what you said earlier about the misconception in the Rama? I looked at it today and he says explicitly that you’re Yotzei because you don’t know the difference while you’re asleep.
Sam: The Rama doesn’t required the wine be what puts you to sleep??
RSZA says in Halichos Shlomo ( dont have exact citation at the moment) that grape juice is fine for the arba kosos.
hershi: You can’t drink grape juice either?
(Also, isn’t there a gemara about this amorah who was sick from pesach until like shevuos? or something like that)
Red wine is most hudor for the Seder. Any wine is better than grape juice.
shein-
“Red wine is most hudor for the Seder. Any wine is better than grape juice”
So Shein is it safe to say you are iber poskening Rav Shlomo Zalman ZT”L?
musser-
Rav Shlomo Zalman did not say anything in conflict with what I posted (which, in fact, is what any number of gedolim have said themselves.)
Wine is mhudor, grape juice is yotzei.
No difference between wine and grape juice at all!
Shein: Okay, and for someone who gets sick from wine there is no issue whatsoever with grape juice. Besides, many Poskim say the Hiddur in wine is that alcohol is Derech Cheirus. So just add a drop of wine to the grape juice and you’re pretty much okay.
Hershi: If you can tolerate it, add a drop of wine to your grape juice. That’s pretty close to Lechatchilah L’chol Hadei’os. (By the way, I saw the Mishnah Brurah yesterday who points out that if wine gives one a headache then one is Mechuyav to drink anyway but if it will make you sick enough to have to lie down then you don’t need to try to have wine.)
Hershi: I can’t say L’chol Hadei’os for sure. I don’t know every single opinion out there. But the general opinion (especially if you live in America since Rav Moshe said that grape juice is basically the same as wine) is that there is a separate Hiddur of wine on the Seder night because it’s more Derech Cheirus if there is alcohol. Obviously, an alcohol content closest to that of a normal wine makes the most sense. But seeing as you can’t do that, then a low-alcohol wine or a wine diluted with grape juice wouldn’t be the most Derech Cheirus possible, and it probably Yotzei this Hiddur of having wine (unless your LOR tells you otherwise).
Pardon the ignorance, but how is wine produced differently than grape juice, considering both come from grapes? And what makes one wine have a higher alcoholic content than another wine? Does wine have a natural amount of alcohol that producers can manipulate by increasing or decreasing?
Bump
Sometimes when a person becomes ill from drink9ng wine it is because of an interaction between the wine and other ingredients,in food or medications.
I found a kosher, sulfite-free wine online: Or Haganuz Elima 2014. I’m sure there are others.
I have a medical condition called gout. I cannot consume much alcohol at all. For me, it can lead to severe joint pain. I use CONCORD KAL for the seder.(3.5 % alcohol content.) It may have sulfites I just use low sugar grape juice otherwise year round, as I also must watch sugar. To all…..PLEASE be careful on Purim with the drinking. Do not injure yourself or others. Do NOT create any chilul Hashem! Purim is a joyous time, it should NOT have any sadness associated with it. PLEASE be responsible.
I recall this posting (and several similiar threads) from several years ago and the inyan of “getting drunK’ as somehow being necessary to be yotzeh the mitzvah is as disgusting now as it was then. People die from vehicular accidents and falls related to intoxication….jiust about all rabbonim who have addressed the issue assur anything more than modests amount of alcohol and those who explicitly “permit” excessive drinking and thereby creating a risk of dealth and serious injury to the entire tzibur are putting their own families in the front of the line for such a tragedy.
The RMA 695:2 says that a person should drink as much too fall asleep, at which he cannot differentiate Haman and Mordechai, whom to bless and whom to curse. The Eyin Yaakov says that there is a logic to bless Haman because 48 neviim could not accomplish what he did, whereas there is also some logic to curse ch’v Mordechai for starting up with Haman for not bowing down to him so he would not know whom to bless and whom to curse. The truth of the matter is, explains the Chasam Sofer, that even though the others were able to bow down to Haman, Mordechai could not because Haman was his slave and so people will say that he is bowing down to an idol form Haman was wearing not to give respect to him.
Ad Dlo Yoda!
once again BUMP
As your local purim rov . He/ she knows best!
Generally, one should consult the gabbai from the kiddush club as to what would be an “appropriate” level of inebriation to be mekayem the obligation of “adsheloyadah”.
If you do chose to get drunk, make sure to hire a babysitter.
will cofee room be open on purim? will the editor be drunk? so anything can be posted?
You shouldn’t look for a heter to avoid the mitzvah of getting drunk. Especially if you’re a member of a kehila that paskens ad dlo yoda halachicly means the pashut pshat is the chiyuv.
You shouldn’t look for a heter to avoid the mitzvah of venishmartem meod lenafshoseichem.
Speak with your rav. This is not like drinking wine on seder night and all poskim I have encountered allow for sleeping if wine will trouble you.
“all poskim I have encountered allow for sleeping if wine will trouble you.”
Perhaps all you’ve encountered, but certainly not all poskim (unless it is a notable medical issue.)
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