Preventable Marriage Disasters

“how to do proper research”, all the research in the world will not reveal anything when things are hidden from others.

People should marry if they feel the desire to have a lifelong committed relationship with another person and have children. If they conclude they are not read for marriage or are incapable of sustaining a committed relationship they shouldn’t marry. Its no one else’s business how or when they make such a decision. All these threads seeking to establish norms for marriage seem to focus more on the feelings of the parents, grandparents, etc. rather than just leaving the most important decision of a person’s life to that person. Its OK not to marry if that is your decision for now and you can revisit that decision if/when your beschert comes into your life.

Better to be married and divorced than to never marry. No question about it.

While “The warning signs” might be obvious to you, they can be easily misunderstood. This can lead to a shadchan labeling someone as psycho when they were just having a bad day. Rather than labeling someone based on flimsy evidence, I suggest waiting until after the third date and then paying for professional advice.
At that point – before the engagement – there is no issur of lashon hara, so it is the ideal time to try to find out the truth.

The three conditions that you mentioned, Asperger Syndrome, Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissism, are not well-defined. We could sum them all up as problems creating close relationships. I think the best approach is to ask about the roommates and friends of the prospective shidduch. On the dates, it is a good idea to ask about friends and roommates as well as family members. Ask about sibling rivalry. Ask if they enjoy spending time with their father. Ask for stories from their childhood. After the third date, I suggest the couple go on a long date (meaning from the morning until night begins). It’s hard to fake being nice all day if you have one of those conditions. Then go home and ask yourself if you want your vacations to be like that long date.
AT THAT POINT, Don’t be afraid to go to a professional marriage counselor with experience and present the evidence. Most Rabbis and Shadchanim are not professional marriage counselors. It can be very difficult to distinguish between an immature girl and a narcissistic girl. The professional should give you one technique specific to that one individual to help you test whether you should continue the shidduch or not.
And of course, don’t forget to daven.

Say Tehilim 121

Syag, many would say the same about the other two things Haimy included in his list.

I never heard of this sefer from R’Epstein but everything mentioned is common sense. I don’t know anyone who strives to marry someone who is incompatible. edited I know people with aspergers who are happily married with kids. So called normal people can be happily compatible someone who is slightly autistic.

As someone who broke (along with many others) an engagement, it is far better to break when one sees red flags than to proceed with what will be a rocky marriage that will end up in divorce. Shalom bayit is one of the most important things. In many cases, a person will act differently post-engagement, so it is always best to re-evaluate when one sees the warning signs. In my case, my ex-kalla had anger management issues. She would throw a tirade and take off her engagement ring. She even did this on Yom tov.

To those who suggest that a bochur should marry even if he has great reservations regarding both himself and the intended kallah, I will respectfully disagree. Talk with your family, friends, rav and others whose view you respect but NEVER marry just to be married. Give the process some time to find the right person for you. I’m sure some will say that p’ru u’ravu trumps everything. If thats what you believe, then obviously feelings don’t matter.

An environment which has constant arguments is very bad for children. Some say it is a mitzva to teach your son how to swim. Swim in tbe sea of life. Pru Urvi does not mean after having them, throw them to the volwes.

And btw there is a mitzva to get married- to fulfill peru urevu

It is absolutely ridiculous to say say that it’s engaging in zenus if you don’t get along with your spouse. I am estimating that at least 20%, and likely more, of frum marriages, are with spouses who do not/or lose respect or liking to one another. Not only in this generation are there such marriages, but in all generations were there such marriages. With marriages that were completely arranged, I would not be surprised if the unhappy marriages were closer to 40%.

I say kol hakovod to those who MUTUALLY decide to continue to be married despite really wanting to divorce. To say such that people in such marriages engage in znus is not only ridiculous, but it’s a disgusting thing to say.

ujm, there’s arranged marriages and there’s arranged marriages. Today’s arranged marriages are not like like the arranged marriages of previous generations when it was almost given that the two people who their parents decided to get married would get married. Today the parents vet the buchar or girl and their families and decide if their children should meet but that’s where it ends. It is up to the boy and girls to decide if they want to get engaged or not. This is accross the board, in all sectors of the Chareidi world.

The higher rate of making a marriage work is not just how the marriages are arranged, but within the Chareidi world people generally want to make marriages work out and the key to that is to work on one’s own middos. In the MO world the drive is not so strong to make marriages work out for a variety of reasons.

There’s another issue being discussed about hiding mental illness before marriage which is a terrible thing to do. However, no one is sating that people must get married to people with mental illness.

Of course, no one should hide anything. If people believe they have a mental illness they must discuss it beforehand. However, I must insert here that many people are being misdiagnosed with mental illnesses when most of the time it’s about middos and has nothing to do with mental illness. Technically all human beings can be diagnosed with mental illnesses in one way or another, none of us are perfect.

Phil:

I am not quite as comfortable about someone staying in a bad marriage. I have seen it happen. On occasion, the family can ride it out successfully. But that is the exception. More often, the home environment is bitter. The fights, while perhaps not violent, are destabilizing for the family. Sometimes, they play the game well enough that the neighbors don’t know. But the kids almost always do.

These kids later enter marriages, and get into trouble. They did not merit seeing parents resolve disagreements, and have no model to do this. They then repeat what comprised their environment for most of their formative years. Result: The short term looks positive, with the absence of the bitter wars that characterize so many divorces. The long term is not so rosy, with children entering their own marriages with baggage.

I concur completely with the hiding of mental illness being completely wrong and disgusting. It is serious, and prevalent. I am aware of rabbonim who counsel and advise to withhold such information. The results are major destruction. The Chofetz Chaim was bold in guiding shidduch information to be open and honest, and that phohibition of lashon horah was not relevant to these situations.

The quip repeated often is that “Marriage is Grand. Divorce is a hundred grand.”

Aside from the financial cost, the emotional cost on all parties can be severe. You are correct in noting that. The question is whether “staying together for the kids” is a good idea or not. And there is no simple answer. Each case is different. Some parents can handle this. Others cannot. Making a decision on this requires doing something that no one can truly do well – predict the future. There is no “One size fits all” here. For one couple, divorce can be the lesser of the evils. For another, staying together with all its challenges might be better. Trying to apply a general answer to this is simply irresponsible. And being blind to negatives of each option is similarly foolish.

Bingo.