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seriously, How do you cope with such lack of funds you have to consider priorities – shall I buy cheese or yogurts etc.
I know it is a nisoyin etc but find it hard to cope with. Any ideas??
Read about life in the not too distant past. No refrigeration for food, no air conditioning except in winter, no heating except in summer, no anesthethics (if they couldn’t operate after giving you some shots of whiskey and holding you down, they didn’t operate and you probably died), no antibiotics (strep was life threatening), for Jews getting killed in a pogrom was often a problem.
Now whine.
sit down with your spouse NOW & make a budget. instead of going out twice a week go only once & by the time yom tov arrives you will have more then enough money saved for yom tov & maybe even to buy your wife something nice.
today we live with 3 cars & 3 vacations etc… a year & then we all wanna know why we don’t have money. isnt it common sense that food, clothing & tuition come way before these?
Sam Klein, just because some people have those luxuries doesn’t mean there aren’t people who genuinely don’t have enough money for food, clothing and tuition.
even simple things theres always a way to make a budget & make ends meet. I as a financial advisor have assisted many people with their issues to get their life back on track & as an example I can tell you that if you buy your wife flowers for Shabbos each week go out one time & get a nice vase with fake flowers that will last forever & your wife will understand & not feel a drop offened cause she will totally understand the situation.
if a person needs tomchei Shabbos assistance or free clothing there is nothing to be embarrassed about. nobody from Tomchei Shabbos is judging you & they are there to help you.
its worse to suffer in silence then to get the assistance which is readily available, even if it can be a little uncomfortable, you & your family should not need to suffer.
Bracha v’Hatzlacha & Parnassa
Poverty is indeed a challenge. I make a game with myself about repurposing food and saving leftovers. for example last nights rice becomes tonights stuffing for chicken etc. Also I find that the less frequently I grocery shop the less I spend on food -it works out cheaper than running to different stores for metziahs. Also be sureyou are getting the govt assistance you are entitled to given your honest income level,
Do what I do.
I daven to HaShem. (cry too when no one is peeking)
And I tell people who I owe that HaShem is bigger than their debt
akuperma: Your argument has many flaws. For one, you cant compare situations where everyone roughed it out together to situations where one person is suffering poverty while surrounded by people with wealth.
In certain countries such as the US, there are people who live in such poverty that they cant afford to see a doctor due to no insurance or very high co-pay, cant afford to pay for their medication at the pharmacy, cant afford air conditioning in the summer, and cant afford enough food to put into their refrigerators. True, in the past people would die due to no medical care and go to shamayim afterwords, today, some people choose to give every dime they earned to doctors to save their lives- only to go back to live in poverty for more years.
Every dor has its challenges. We have our own issues to deal with today, such as it being nearly impossible to live in a state of kedusha and tahara in todays world where atheism, secularism and blatant immodesty creeps into every aspect of society.
There is no easy solution for you. I could be wrong, but dont think any coping tools will help day in and day out living in poverty besides hope of change and tefila. You have to do your best to bring yourself out of poverty, and daven to Hashem to help you by any means necessary. Hatzlacha!
Don’t have kids before you have a way to support them.
????? ???? ???? ?????
I didn’t make this up myself. I claim no rights in the above. It has nothing to do with zionist/hareidi or Democrats/Republican.
But if you do read history, and realize that until recently most people lacked some luxuries as central heat in the winter, air conditioning in the summer, refrigeration for food, food not produced locally, vaccines, antibiotics, surgery, cars and trains, electronic communications, and a government that lets Jews be frum and not to have to worry if each day will be your last, etc. – it is very easy to realize you are well off.
Goofus, who here has no way support their kids? Nobody said they have trouble supporting kids.
Silly question, but do you have time to make your own yogurt? I personally never did, but have read it’s pretty simple. Just an example of saving money by being creative, even with food. You can get your kids involved, if you have school aged children, especially now in the summer.
Very often making food such as dips for Shabbos by yourself is cheaper than ready bought. It’s also good to be aware that groceries/supermarkets sell a lot of products that are really luxuries. Just avoid those except for rare occasions. Hatzlacha!
You guys don’t seem to be getting it. The OP spoke about choosing between yoghurt or cheese and you go on about cars and vacations. Everyone has their own nisyanyos but thank Hashem poverty is not one of yours. Sympathise with the OP and admit you know nothing about instead of giving unhelpful advice.
sushibagel – SO RIGHT!!!!
the responses from some people was so far off. tell me how i can budget an income of $50000 with an outflow of $70000. sell a car? got it!
mammale – i think that’s a great idea, especially if you are able to get milk subsidized. midwesterner’s wife happens to make awesome yogurt and got me on the kick. I once tried making my own cheese but found out it requires too much milk to be cost effective.
Depends on the car.
Newbeem in New York, someone that poor qualifies for health care under Medicaid, unless they are illegal
lesschumras – that is true only in theory. there are people who have “too much” income to qualify for medicaid but have expenses (such as loans, therapies, medical expenses that are not covered by insurance etc.)that leave them literally in the situation newbee described.
people who are honest and report all their income but don’t have more than 2 or 3 children do not always qualify.
It is also very common to have older children living at home until marriage but after 19 (in IL) they no longer qualify as household members so supporting 5 older kids can be a tremendous expense but you are calculated as someone living alone.
when my son got a job, because he lived in my house his income disqualified us from getting subsidized school lunches even tho he does not pay us any rent. and we could not afford full prices for the program.
while not common, being that poor is not necessarily as uncommon among our regular community members as you might think, but it is definitely well hidden
(not arguing, just clarifying)
sushibagel is right, if someone can’t get in her shoes, and if you have never been in that situation, maybe this isn’t the right thread to post in.
Just curious, does the OP have a skill or college education that can earn him or her a higher paying salary? If not, is this something you or a spouse can work towards?
Its getting to the point where living in NYC area is becoming “Gashmiut” and Jerusalem is actually more money than NYC so moving there wont solve the problem.
About the cars, If a husband an wife drive and have some teenagers. 3 cars isnt such a luxury.
zdad – thank you for having some understanding here, the car issue is a tough one to explain to people. They can’t imagine having cars is anything but a luxury or something you can cut when the budget is tight.
we actually have three cars. two of them are from the 1900’s and are used for getting my husband to work and my daughter to college. the other drivers/kids have to get rides or walk to work and school so we have about 6-8 ‘carpools’ a day. there isn’t a cheaper option for us. even the schools bussing would have cost us more.
I grew up in the Suburbs where a car is not a Luxury , Public transportain either weak or non-existant and I totally get that some people need more than 1 car
as a disclaimer, i don’t think i am poor so the thread title makes me a bit uncomfortable, i just realize by posts here that many people are fortunate enough to be unaware of some of the things that go on around them (B”H) and i am just hoping to help bring some awareness.
Syag: I cannot fathom how a wealthy individual such as yourself, with your three-car garage etc., has the chutzpah to come here to lecture poor people who can barely afford the food how three cars isn’t a luxury.
Sheesh.
/duck
P.S. I hope you’ve regained your sense of humor. 😉
seriously, How do you cope with such lack of funds you have to consider priorities – shall I buy cheese or yogurts etc.
I know it is a nisoyin etc but find it hard to cope with. Any ideas??
1: Daven. God is bigger than your budget issues.
2: Make a budget, and figure out where the money is going.
3: Speak to your creditors. Often, people to whom you own money will accept less than the full amount if you can pay now. Borrow from a Gemach to pay less, and pay back the Gemach over time. Others may accept payment in kind (such as doing work) or objects.
4: Come up with a plan. Move somewhere less expensive with a better job market. Think outside the box. Open a business, try getting hired by a chain (e.g. WalMart) or the government. Have one spouse work the night shift to save on babysitting.
5: Rely on family for temporary help. They may also hire you for odd jobs (think babysitting) if they know that you need the money, instead of hiring someone outside the family.
6: Daven. God is bigger than your budget issues.
To everyone else: Everyone has to deal with spending priorities, even if it is “do I give to the Meshulach or to my local Yeshiva”. Recognizing the there are limits for everyone is critical in life.
coming from a large family of more then 12 siblings my family never had more then 1 car & we didn’t even have a van. how did my large family manage throughout the year? only for once a year we exchanged our car for a friends van it was for visiting day in the summer. even to family weddings my dad made 2 car trips to the wedding hall with all the kids.
finally when a child is old enough to work & have a drivers license then s/he can also afford to get a car & pay for it her/him self. its not the parents job to buy 3 cars so their working child has a way to work
Joseph – 🙂
MA – i don’t know if you realize how offensive your words are. Besides the fact that it is ridiculous to talk about your childhood experiences years ago and compare them to now when the world has changed drastically, what kind of business do you have to make such a comment?! You cannot possibly be responding to my post because i said we bought a car for our daughter to get to SCHOOL, not work. But we didn’t buy the car for our daughter, it was for us to use to make sure she had a way to work as the other kids needed rides during those times.
How unrealistic for you to think a person having a job can afford a car, gas and insurance. What kind of job do you think this 19, 20, 21 year old is holding? And to say it with such confidence without knowing anything about a persons situation.
You like to talk about all the things us little people need to do to bring moshiach but you seem, somehow, to be missing some of those little tiny things called sensitivity and anava that are actually MUCH MORE CRITICAL. So am i being insensitive? Sure, call it what you wish. I would like to think i am defending the pride of those people who may have been hurt by your flippancy and misplaced confidence. And I am doing you a HUGE favor because as a (to quote you)financial manager who is also a psychologist, it can only be very beneficial for you to know how people actually live and feel.
No need to thank me for this free lesson. I am a self proclaimed life coach or something. Right Joe?
Forgot to add, when you borrowed this friends van for visitors day, who was up at camp? Cuz I know it’s expensive, i mean i haven’t been able to afford it and I have three cars.
Gavra – EXCELLENT post!
In Europe the Yeshivas had Eating days, meaning if you learned in the Yeshiva, you only ate 4 or 5 days a week and the rest you fasted.
By following that logic, if you eat 3 meals a day you are rich like we do today
They also had in most cities (except Krakow) Weddings On Friday afternoon so the Seuda merged with the Shabbos Seudah because they could not afford 2 meals.
Todays wedding are total gashmiut by the same standard
Wait, I thought aries2756 was the life coach…
Mashiach Agent – different strokes. I’m sure you also walked 5 miles to school 3 feet in the snow uphill both ways 🙂 That being said, necessities are what people make them to be. As akuperma points out, most things in life are not.
Syag – Thank you.
Also, Chassidim often have “free” camps for members of the Chassidus.
syag
sorry if my post sounded insensitive, as a psychologist it is a top rule to be sensitive, BUT when it comes to assisting a patient everything needs to be %100 HONEST or else all my help to my patient is worthless if I don’t get the full true story/situation from him/her.
every doctor/rebbe can only help his patient/talmid If he listens %100 to his advice & takes the medicine prescribed for him in his situation etc… to help him the patient needs to tell his doctor what really hurts him…. so he can prescribe the right medicine/solution
Hatzlacha
on this topic the top solution is to sit down today/immediately with your spouse & make a budget
visiting day was the most exciting trip of the summer (without the need for distractions in the car for the 3 hour ride each way)for the entire family & we stopped in monsey at a relative for dinner & didn’t get back to town until after 10pm which is late for kids
Sam Klien, we are not your patients.
Cuz I know it’s expensive, i mean i haven’t been able to afford it and I have three cars.
You’d be able to afford it if you’d sell one of your cars. 🙂
Under Obamacare everyone is suppose to be covered for health insurance. If you are poor I believe you are qualified for a subsidy. I think you can earn up to $94,500 for a family of 4.
(This is for NY residents but may apply elsewhere.)
If you don’t eat out and economize you can save a lot of money. For instance buy items in bulk and when on sale, like rice, macaroni and oatmeal, instead of meat, fish and potatoes.
Make a budget and stick to it. It will show you where you are spending your money and where you can cut back and save.
If you have older children who are working ask them to contribute.
Even if they are not contributing to the family budget you can and should take them as dependents on your income tax return. You will be saving more than them as you are probably in a higher tax bracket then your children.
If the child is not contributing to the household nor are you declaring him/her as a dependent you don’t have to include their income in household income for governmental benefit purposes. If you don’t believe me ask a local accountant at shul. or google it.
Depending on where you live you may not need so many cars. Try walking it is healthier. For example walk to and from shul during the week. You will be surprised how much gas you will save. If you live in NYC you really don’t need a car a savings of about $9.000 a year.($6,000 between gas tolls and maintenance and $3,000 in insurance.) You can use mass transit to go anywhere. You don’t have to find parking nor worry about tickets. If you need groceries the stores delivers it for a few bucks extra. Its worth it you don’t get a hernia lugging it to and from the car. The few times you need a car you can rent it.
If you need to earn a few bucks you can work as a stock boy filling shelves at the local grocery store late at night. Or you can drive for a car service such as Uber and earn additional money that way.
mazaltov
You have been able to find people who need your “office work” service. What you need to do is call other people or businesses in that industry and see if they also need your services.
If you live in NYC I would advise you to go to the Brooklyn Business Library located at Cadman Plaza which is wheelchair accessible.They have all types of list of people and their phone numbers there. Or you can try googling for clients or ask your friend if they know anyone that needs you service. You need to sell yourself, that is the only way you will find clients and make money.
MA – are you familiar with the word delusional?
or perhaps troll…the paperwork hasn’t come back yet.
about food specifically, do some research to find coupons and sales ahead of time. buy stuff in bulk, buy cheaper cuts of meat (and eat less meat too), be mindful about wasting food, make new meals out of leftovers, do not eat out so much, price match. Also, if you live in Brooklyn and are really in the pits, there are soup kitchens that look like restaurants and operated by Masbia.
i remember about 15 years ago i made a list of my 15 most popular products i bought in the grocery every week & then walked into each of 10 grocery stores in my town & wrote down the prices of each of these products & then knew where each product was the cheapest & it didnt even take so long to do & i saved hundred of dollars.
do the same for your most popular bought products
MA
You can just as easily put the product and google it. This way you don’t have to even get out of your seat. and still find the cheapest place to get it. Many BJ’s are kosher on the eastern sea board so their baked goods maybe cheaper then your kosher bakery. Day old bread and other baked good are reduced in price but still taste fresh. Likewise, because some types of kosher meat are reduced on Sunday because they want to get rid of it.
Education
One of the ways to get out of the poorhouse is by getting a degree. If you can there are many programs such as CLEP or AP. If you take their exams and pass you will get college credit. Also if you went to Bais Medrash or Seminary you can get college credits for it. CLEP Exams cost $80.00 per exam but are usually worth 3 credits. AP Exams cost $91 but reduce it by $29.00 for low income students. The advantage is that you can use older books which are free if you can borrow them from the library or cheap because they are a year or two old. But it requires dedication you must study every night in order to be ready for the exam. You can go online and watch videos of college courses and then take the exam,
Since you are poor you will qualify for a lot of student aid. Only take grants not loans. If you live in NYC you can register with CUNY college and your grants should cover all of your tuition and even pay for some of your books. With your degree hopefully you will get a good paying job.
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