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The media consensus from all but the most partisan Democrats is that last night’s debate was awful for Biden and he should step aside. He had to show he was still mentally sharp enough to run the country, and he didn’t do that. Trump was Trump, meaning he spews lies but coherently. This debate was a referendum on Biden’s mental health, and he lost it.
Question for those here who vote Democrat: Do you prefer to stick with Biden or should he be replaced? If you replace him, who should he be replaced with?
My Daas Torah says vote Republican, though they don’t think highly of Trump. So I can’t objectively think about what the Democrats should do here. So I’m asking you.
(This thread is not meant to devolve into “But Trump! But Biden/Democrats!” It’s just a question on this huge moment in political history that will be long-remembered. How do you solve it if you like Democrats and Biden?)This is a tricky situation for Dems. First, someone needs to convince the President to step aside,
Second, like meraglim who say “let’s have a new leader” – they do not have one leader. B carefully calibrates between all 10 wings of the D party, and he is still fretting about a group of Arabs in Michigan. Everyone coming fresh will surely eliminate someone in the D coalition and lose the key states.
Third, if B steps away from the election, then the immediate question would be – why is he still a President if his party has no confidence in him. That will make Kamala the face of US gov for a couple of months, surely not something helpful in a election.
I clearly understood that Joe Biden was senile,
I clearly understood that FOUR YEARS AGO.Why did the world just recently come to understand,
what I understood FOUR YEARS AGO?The time for Biden to drop out was last year. If he drops out now, he has no clear successor and no chance for primary elections to produce a clear successor to his candidacy, so anyone who is nominated at the convention will struggle to be seen as legitimate. Kamala, as the VP, probably has the best claim to legitimacy, but she’s seen as weak and unpopular and probably doesn’t have enough time to change that before the election even if she knew how to. So the Dems at this point appear to have nothing but an array of bad options to choose from.
@OP
Let me quote something that a certain person posted in the CR“There is no Biden and there is no Trump. There is no Democratic Party and there is no Republican Party. Hashem runs the world. Biden and Trump are both illusions of the hester panim. Vote the way your daas torah tells you to, but don’t get so wrapped up in politics as it’s all fake.”
Sounds familar?
Gretchen Whitmer would be a safe consensus, and would be able to be a good face for what is the Democrat’s strongest weapon against the GOP – Abortion.
Gavin Newsom is popular, is articulate, and -even though it shouldn’t matter- he has the Bill Clinton and Barack Obama charisma.
Joe Biden would still be president even if he wasn’t running. He’d be stepping down as CANDIDATE, not President.
skripka, you can’t hack your way to a win just through the babies. You need to add some less sympathetic enemies to arose enough support from the populum.
but here is your conundrum:
if he is stepping down as CANDIDATE because everyone agrees that he is incoherent,
what is his rationale for staying in as a PRESIDENT?He can’t just say “I want to spend more time with my family” because he is spending most of his time chatting with his family as it is.
@AAQ His rationale would be that campaigning is not for him, and that although he can still be president, campaigning requires a certain charisma and false exuberance that he can’t promise to be able to display.
And you definitely can ride abortion to victory, the Dems did it in 2022
skripka, telling people that you can run the country but the elections is not a winning proposition with non-partisans.
Abortions might be effective during midterms when the voting rate is very low and increasing partisan rage gives you an advantage. Not so in Presidential elections, when middle of the road voters matter more.
Your named suggestions are interesting but create a huge problem for the Democrat Party (Disclosure: I have been a delegate to the national convention many times).
The heiress apparent (whom I do not support) is Kamala Harris.
The party cannot push her aside for a white male or female candidate without losing what is left of the Black support for the party. They would sit the election out and the candidate chosen would loseThis “black support” thing is really a mental aberration, and a racist at that. Neither Barrack nor Kamala are descendants of slaves in America. They are both in part high-privileged (white or Brahmin, with a touch of slave owners), and part African, unrelated to US. How do they redeem any slavery sins of America, real or imagined? The only legit salve descendent who lives in the WH was Michelle, but she did not like it.
Xct, (do you mind if I call you that for short?
What about Jeffries? If the democrats were to win the house he would be third in line anyways
Anyone who doesn’t support Biden is a Russian sympathizer just like in 2016. There should be another investigation obviously many democrats are complicit in supporting Russian propaganda.
@Coffee
There is little or no support for Jeffries. In general members of the House are not nominated for President@AAQ
Black support is a real thing, it does not matter that Obama was half white and Harris half Indian.
They sell in the urban ghettos and Black churches. I have seen the voters whipped up by the cleverly and the grassroots get out the vote effort.The descendants of slaves idea is one only considered by the elite, not the masses
Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz of Yated Ne’eman said:
“The media and his fellow politicians have been hiding the president’s condition from the American people.
His administration governed following a leftist agenda, embedding it deeply into American governance, culture, and society.
Expressing the truth about the president and his abilities risked the return of Donald Trump and his traditionalism and America First agenda.Journalism today is less about objective reporting and more about framing occurrences to advance agendas and objectives.
So, when there were clips of the president demonstrably weakened, saying silly things, or speaking gibberish and displaying that he was in decline, the right-wing media reported on them while the prevailing mainstream media, whose objective is to advance social progressivism, ignored them.Biden was kept hidden from the general population. Sometimes they would trot him out to read speeches or comments from cards or a teleprompter, but he would rarely interface with people for long and didn’t engage in small talk. Invariably, when he did, he would say something foolish, wrong, or incomprehensible.
He would meet with leaders and dignitaries and read his comments from cards. It was poor form for foreign leaders to tell anyone that the president wasn’t with it. At summits, everyone would play along and cover for the American president. Liberalism was enabled to govern and lead the country and the world.
Generally, the gambit worked, and when the media and Democrat politicians were unable to ignore the instances, they blamed them on the right and said that the right-wing media was dishonestly editing clips to portray a healthy, sharp, vigorous president as incoherent and weak.
But the campaign messed up. They believed their own narratives about Donald Trump and assumed that, in an early debate, he would expose himself to the world for the madman they told everyone he is. The country would see that he is insane and wants to be a dictator. They would be rid of him once and for all.
But the tables were turned, and even after a full week of rest and preparation, their candidate could not perform.
He spoke in incomplete sentences, was unclear and unfocused, and at times made absolutely no sense at all.
There was no way to sugarcoat what 50 million people saw with their own eyes in real time.
So instead of Trump being exposed, Biden was. And the jig was up.Once they realized that, everyone who had been covering for Biden ran for cover.
Then they made it seem as if they were surprised.
They knew that if permitted to run for reelection as their candidate,
Biden would lose, and the liberal enterprise they had going would implode.
With little choice, they began sacrificing their man and playing up the incompetent woman he had chosen to serve as his vice president, hoping that they would be able to do for her what they did for him and convince the low-information voters to vote for her and then carry her over the finish line.They say that their campaign is all about democracy, yet here they go and seek to upend the results of a primary in which Democrat voters across this country voted that Mr. Biden should be the Democrat nominee for president. However, because they fear that he will lose, they are now preparing to do something that was never done before and simply disgorge the democratically chosen candidate for president.
Then they tell us that they are the ones fighting for democracy and Trump is the dictator.
The media is gleefully formulating and driving this instead of simply reporting what others are saying and doing.”SOURCE: On Logic by Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz, 2024 July 10, www (dot) yated (dot) com
ExCTL > The descendants of slaves idea is one only considered by the elite, not the masses
So, you are saying masses are plain racist? It could be, but more likely simply emotional and following the flow.
As an example, gallup has a “poll” about “immigration” – scary quotes because they do not use “illegal” in most questions, conflating legal and illegal immigration, while clearly referring to illegal in other questions, like “closing the border” . So they have these 2 questions, approximately:
1. would you give citizenship for the immigrants who are already in the country if they follow certain (undefined) conditions – yes 80%
2. would you agree to immediately deport everyone who is currently in the country illegally. yes 40%So, at least 20% answered yes to both questions, although these answers are incompatible. Well, maybe they just want any resolution, just want to debate to end?!
I believe in small government. How can a government get smaller than if all the people in it are shrinking? Let’s replace all of Congress with dementia patients.
@AAQ
I am not saying the masses are racist (I don’t apply that word broadly). I am saying that groups have ethnic and other preferences and extend them to voting.Being honest:
We like to live amongst our own kind
We vote for Jewish candidates
We look for and use Jewish professionals (medical, legal, accounting, etc.)
We shop at Jewish owned businesses.Does this make us racist? Not unless we refuse to do any of these things because the person is not of our own kind.
why only speak about his performance at the debate?
how about how well he did at the newsconference he led a few days later. he did EXTREMELY WELL at that news conference. Ignoring that, eh? you trumpers make me sick. and i’m a republican. you couldn’t elect chris christie or nikki halley or anyone else? you picked a convicted felon, who, were it anyone else, without all those lawyers, would now be rotting in jail.
oy.yechiyell,
I have a feeling you already know this but all the debate did was confirm to the entire country that Brandon has always been an incompetent, incontinent demented failure who ruined everything he even looked at. His drug-pushing doctors, Hamas-loving handlers, lying spokespeople and fawning media are no longer a sufficient fig leaf to cover the fact that this late stage Alzheimer’s patient should have been institutionalized years ago.
Instead of pretending to be a Republican and getting all deranged about their nominee, you might accomplish more by convincing your bankrupt democrat politburo to find someone with a brain cell to replace this useless turd.
You mean the news conference that he had a list of reporters that he allowed them to ask questions and he called Trump his VP?
Even CNBC was making fun of him for THAT!
Gadolhadofi,
I’m not sure he can find one with a brain cell, except for maybe Fetterman
EXCTL>Being honest:
We like to live amongst our own kind
We vote for Jewish candidates
We look for and use Jewish professionals (medical, legal, accounting, etc.)
We shop at Jewish owned businesses.Does this make us racist?
—
On one hand, I agree with you. At the same time, I skipped voting for a Jewish VP candidate despite respecting him … another relative of mine used to avoid meeting that candidate’s mother for years, as she was always asking whether he voted for her son …I am not the only one trying to vote for the good of the country. USA is doing somewhat better than other countries avoiding narrow voting for personal interest. For example, dem strategists are complaining for years that Americans are voting down “death taxes” despite 99% of them “benefiting” from such re-distribution…
yechiel > he did EXTREMELY WELL at that news conference. Ignoring that, eh?
At the first glance, I thought this was sarcasm and double-checked whether I was the one who wrote it. I actually watched this conference to do my own diagnosis. Even at 2x speed, President’s thinking was painstakingly slow. I felt bad for the old man embarrassing himself. Someone @ WSJ tried to defend Pres B by describing how Reagan was deteriorating during last year. This op-ed has about 2,000 comments all saying the same thing: Reagan stepped down from the high level, Biden is sliding from the unremarkable level he was when he was younger.
Also, NYT headline writers are off their rockers. Latest one: Dems push Biden to xxxx – Last thing a stumbling old man needs is a push!
AAQ
You could not have voted for a Vice Presidential candidate if you wanted.
Only the Presidential Candidate appears on the ballot and is voted for. The VP choice of the party gets a free ride with the winning Presidential candidate.No voter was able to cast a vote for that person since the VP position had no place in the ballot.
I still am an Asst. Registrar of Voters and know election laws and procedures
When you’re going to do tokenism, does it matter if your token is authentic?
Ex-CTL, I am not a lawyer or an ex-lawyer, so I am allowed to be imprecise. I did not punched a chad near a name of a kosher candidate.
The madness has begun………………………….
I had not planned to attend this year’s Democrat National Convention and had tendered a proxy.
I had stated earlier in the CR that if Biden dropped out I might withdraw my proxy and attend.I have had more than 50 phone calls. emails and texts this morning seeking my support for various candidates.
I do not support VP Harris, although I have explained why it would be very hard to remove her from the ticket.
I do not support Newsom
I like Whitmer, Pritzker, Shapiro but think Harris will get the nd.The first Democrat National Convention I attended as a floor guest was 1968 in Chicago when Mayor Dailey’s goons attacked demonstrators in the streets. I attended as a delegate 5 times and thought I was through. It is tempting to attend this historic convention. Each state has different rules regarding those Electoral College Members who have been hosen based on pledges to Biden. Lots of horse trading will be going on
It began at the debate
ExCTL, I am looking forward to your live comments from the convention.
AAQ
If I go, I’ll post
What is interesting is that the D Parties of NC, SC and TN have stated their delegates will vote Harris.
However, state laws and rules don’t apply at the National Convention of a political party. It is decided law that only Party Rules apply. The rues of the Democrat Party state that the delegates at the convention decide the nominee, they are not bound by the state party or primary results (after first ballot or if the candidate is no longer running).
I have sat on the Rules Committee in the past, this will be an interesting year
Whitmer says she will not run, but in the past non-candidates have been drafted.
The CT State Dem Committee seems to be united behind Harris, but cannot direct delegates how to vote. Biden won all the delegates decided by primary and they are now free. The general population does not realize that in addition to primary chosen delegates, each state has a number of super delegates, Senators, Congressmen, etc.And I believe that money that has been pledged to Biden-Harris campaign can only be transferred to a ticket that has one of them on it. So Harris would have to be the nominee for the DNC money raised so far to e used by the campaign
What’s funny is that Harris is/was just a heartbeat away to the presidency
If that was the case why would people jump in now hand someone else be nominated when a vote for Biden was really a vote for Harris?
@skripa
You are correct that the money donated to the Biden/Harris Campaign Fund can be used by a ticket that has on of them in it.
It won’t happen, but if someone else (John Doe) got the nomination for President and chose Harris as running mate, that campaign could use the funds.Coffee
Harris will get the nomination. The phones have been worked and she has more than enough pledged delegates to secure victory in the roll call vote.
BTW, I received a call asking for my vote, I said that my proxy should be called as I have not revoked it yet.The possible alternatives have come out and endorsed her, so as to preserve their Presidential hopes for the future.
The big question is who she will pick as a running mate and how fast?
The sooner the better for her campaign.The current arithmetic says that I should not revoke my proxy and attend in person.
Ex-CTlawyer; If you are planning to attend the convention and a virtual roll-call hasn’t already locked-in the nominees, I’ll send you a campaign button
“Beshear is באַשערטWhile Harris will likely retain the support of the traditional Democratic constituencies, Beshear is the strongest of the Democratic VP options to attract the independent voters turned off by the far-right MAGA turn of the Republican party.
Winning in Kentucky is hard enough for a Democrat but he has done so TWICE and successfully worked across the aisle with a Republican legislature. Perhaps most importantly for many here in the CR, he has been a consistent supporter of EY, speaking out strongly after October 7th. More than just flying state flags at half mast, his administraiton has aggressively gone after those accused of anti-semitic attacks and established a state Task Force on fight antisemitism. I also like Roy Cooper of NC but believe Beshear will provide a stronger boost to the Democratic ticket in NovemberBeshear is a fine choice, but I am not eager to remove a winning D governor who could be the one to choose Mitch McConnell’s replacement if necessary mid term
xCTL,
there are now multiple articles describes (with names) all the people who noticed that Pres B had cognitive issues starting 2021 and how they asll re-assured themselves, or were reasssured, or ignored, or were not given access, or were threatened. This is getting close to how members of Chinese Communist party behave, simply playing their voting role.Could you please look these formerly “pledged” electors in the eye and ask them how they chose to become part of this game, agreeing to vote for the candidate about whom they knew they did not have enough information? And if they did have enough information, they should show integrity and vote for Pres B. I am sure he will reconsider if the electors will vote for him.
I hope it will be a good lesson for the citizens of this country to understand how Chinese and Russians feel and how we got to be led in the same direction …
Ctlawyer, I am willing to wager Biden resigns to give Harris legitimacy any talk of this in your cigar smoke filled rooms?
Also how do you feel about the loss of labor support for democrats, can you attribute this to elitism and trade agreements?
“https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/2299138/kamala-clinches-harris-secures-enough-democratic-delegates-to-become-partys-presidential-nominee.html“
Well there goes “the will of the people” and an open convention 😂
@lostspark
I do not expect the President to resign and let Harris ascend. The backlash would be too great in a close election.@Coffee A
It is not about the will of the people, it is about Party Rules which govern who is and how they are chosen to be the party’s nominee.To quote am Old American Express Commercial: “Membership has its privilege”
If you are not a member of the Democrat Party you have no right to determine who the nominee should be (I oppose open primaries).Many of us worked log and hard for our party investing time and money and were wiling to support an incumbent and not show him the door for younger, less experienced people. The President was not convinced to step aside by young bucks, he listened to the reason and experience of senior party members, such as 84 year old Nancy Pelosi ( ho has spent about as many years in Government as Biden).
Many delegates were willing to accept a weakened, aging incumbent as our candidate because it was believed he could defeat EX-President Trump. When it became apparent that was no longer the case it was time for a change. I for one, would rather have had a President Biden running on 5 cylinders than another term of Trump destroying what little is left of our personal liberties.
I don’t know how old you are, or your schooling. I am old enough to have rejoiced when the Supreme Court ruled the forced Christian Prayer I was forced to endure in public elementary school Unconstitutional back in 1962. I was thrilled when President Johnson and the Dems passed the Civil Rights Act. and we could not be legally discriminated against because we are Jews
“To quote am Old American Express Commercial: “Membership has its privilege”
If you are not a member of the Democrat Party you have no right to determine who the nominee should be (I oppose open primaries).”Voters didn’t vote for her, delegates did and I really hope you understood that was what I meant! When I said “will of the people” I was OBVIOUSLY referring to the PEOPLE of the democrat party, not the bureaucrats, you yourself have said she wouldn’t be YOUR choice, and people should have had a chance to “vote” for this new candidate
@CoffeeA
Being Pragmatic, Biden got the overwhelming majority of votes in the Democratic primaries last spring.
Voters knew they were voting for Biden/Harris and that she would take over if he could not complete a term.
Voters who were opposed to Harris could have voted for another candidate or uncommitted.The Rules of the Party are published and not a surprise, but many people Don other to discover what they say until something unusual pops up.
Having been Rules Committee Chairman in the CT State Democrat Party and on the national Party Rules Committee in the past I am more aware than the average voter.
If delegates chosen by the state parties do not want to vote for Harris, they are not bound to do so. However, the vast majority of delegates will vote for what is best for the Party in order to retain the White House. At this point that seems to be to nominate Harris as the Democrat Presidential Candidate.
This has been the consensus of the many conversations, texts, emails that I have had with colleagues across the country.As I often preach and point out, America is not a Democracy and does not operate as one (with the exception of a few small New England Towns still run by Town Meetings). America is a Republic. Voters elect representatives (in this case delegates) to represent them and the representatives are empowered to cast votes based on current information and developments at the time of the vote. No delegates were elected based in an unwavering commitment to vote Biden. In fact in most states delegates are not elected, but the State Party appoints them based on the results of the primary vote. Again there are also Super Delegates who hold voting rights based on office and may not reflect the results of a primary.
I am not here to electioneer, my explanations are here as an educational service to CR readers. I never try to persuade anyone here to vote for or against a candidate or Party. I have voted a split ticket in virtually every election since 1972.
> I do not expect the President to resign and let Harris ascend. The backlash would be too great in a close election.
XCTL, could you ask Ms Harris-Emhoff at the convention “what did you know about President condition and when did you know that?”.
When reporters jump on you, tell them that you are also a reporter and YWN CR readers want to know the answer.@AAQ
First why do you call the VP Harris-Emhoff, a name she does not use.
My new wife did not take my last name, my daughters do not use their husbands’ last names in their professional lives.Second,
I would not pose the question you ask.
There is the law of the land called HIPAA and unless the President chose to share medical information with the VP, it could not legally be disclosed to her.
Even if legally disclosed to her (by his consent), she could not legally share the information with meEx-CTLawyer,
HIPAA should not affect employees or workmates.
It generally affects healthcare providers and systems.
Ex-CTL,
for a lawyer, you are pretty loose with laws. HIPAA applies to medical professionals.What you are saying that we descended to the depth of China and USSR, where leader’s health was a state secret. I can give some slack to cabinet members – they serve the President and most of them can not earn parnosah outside of the government, so they say what they have to keep their jobs. I am not saying it is ethical to mislead the country for several years, but at least I understand. She is a politician. Even as she was selected by Biden, she can not be fired by him. She is there to be a responsible political voice. If she knew that Biden is not capable of running the country and continued publicly saying the opposite, she has no excuses, and should pay political price for that. If she did not know, then it will tell us how involved and understanding she is. I think it is important to find out and you are in the unique position to bring clarity.
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