Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › Popa's eggs mishmar shaila
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July 26, 2013 5:27 am at 5:27 am #610170popa_bar_abbaParticipant
I can’t find if I ever wrote this before, so here it is:
I’m too lazy to look up the sourcing so I’ll write what I remember. Maybe I’ll add in the sourcing a different time.
Blood spots. In eggs. There is a machlokes. One shitta is that if it is on the yolk it is assur. One shitta is that if it is on the white it is assur. (Something about a third shitta and a kesher.)
We are machmir like all shittos. The consequence is that no matter where you find the blood spot it is assur.
So:
Suppose you crack an egg and see a blood spot–it is assur no matter where the blood is.
Suppose you crack an egg and see a blood spot, and then mix that egg up with several other eggs–it is assur, no matter where the blood spot was.
Suppose you crack several eggs and mix them together and then notice a blood spot–it is muttar because there is a safek that maybe it was in a spot that is muttar. Wait, what? But you just said that we are machmir that no matter where it is it is assur. So how does a safek help us? Both sides of the safek are assur!
July 26, 2013 10:59 am at 10:59 am #969294TheGoqParticipantPopa your cracking up.
July 26, 2013 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #969295☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantDidn’t it become a safek d’rabbonon?
July 26, 2013 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #969296Sam2ParticipantThere is no Mimah Nafshach. It’s not that every spot is Assur. It’s that we don’t know where the Assur spot is, so we treat all spots as Assur. But at the end of the day it might be Muttar. So if you see the blood spot you have a Safek in Din about whether this blood spot is Muttar or Assur, something that we are Machmir on. But if you don’t see the spot until later then the Safek is in Metzius, was the blood in a Muttar spot or not? (I feel like you’re leaving something out. I haven’t done this in many years but don’t you need a second Safek in order to make this Muttar?)
July 26, 2013 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #969297popa_bar_abbaParticipantSam: you don’t need a second safek. The combined reason is that it is also batul b’rov. (And I’m guessing the blood is batul b’shishim, and the assur egg is min b’mino)
July 26, 2013 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #969298Sam2ParticipantPBA: Ah, that makes sense. It’s a D’rabannan so it’s S’feiko L’kula. My Chiluk doesn’t work for you though? We don’t know which is Assur so we treat each individual case as Assur. But at the end of the day it might have come from a Muttar spot. So if you don’t know what that spot is then as long as you have a way of Bittul you can use the Bittul.
(The single egg with a blood sport itself is a Safek D’oraisa. And even if it was D’rabannan this would be analogous to the case of the 4 Kosos; see the Ran there in the last Perek of Pesachim.)
July 26, 2013 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #969299HaLeiViParticipantThe egg would have to be Batul Beshishim, not the blood.
I didn’t learn through those Halachos, but to be Nosen Taam to what you describe we can say that once you had the Shaila on a whole egg and had to render it Traif, it is a Chaticha Asura and we aren’t Mattir Chad Betrei. On the other hand, when the Safek is born on the mix you can still ponder its Issur and add that to the Rov factor.
July 26, 2013 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #969300popa_bar_abbaParticipantI think I have a simpler answer
July 26, 2013 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #969301Sam2ParticipantHaLeiVi: No, because the egg is a Safek Issur because we never Paskened on the egg before it became mixed in.
PBA: What was DY’s deleted answer from two years ago?
July 26, 2013 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #969302HaLeiViParticipantWhat do you mean by that? When we had one whole egg in front of us we had to Pasken on it that it is Treif.
July 28, 2013 2:49 am at 2:49 am #969303popa_bar_abbaParticipantMy answer, and DY’s answer, is this:
If you see where it is, and then it gets mixed in, then you know that there is one rishon which holds it is assur, so since we are machmir like both the raah and the rif/rambam, we are machmir and it is assur.
But if you didn’t see where it was and then it gets mixed in–then both the rif/rambam and the raah themselves–would hold it is muttar. Because if you brought it to the raah, he would look at it, say it is a safek issur and in a taaruvos so it is muttur. And if you brought it to the rif or rambam, they would say the same. So yes, we are machmir like both shittos–but we are machmir m’safek like both shittos, not that we think that both are concurrently correct. So if according to both shittos it would be muttar, we also say it is muttar.
What you think?
July 28, 2013 3:29 am at 3:29 am #969304Sam2ParticipantI think we basically said the same thing. I just used fancier language and you were clearer. That makes perfect sense.
July 28, 2013 8:32 am at 8:32 am #969305HaLeiViParticipantThat’s a great answer. I didn’t realize that it is definite in the first case that you know where it is. According to your Pshat, if you mix up this one egg, then notice a spot, and then it gets mixed with others it will also be fine.
July 28, 2013 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #969306popa_bar_abbaParticipantSam: Yes, now that I re-read you, you did say the same thing.
Haleivi: Yes, I’m pretty sure that is the halacha.
July 28, 2013 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #969307HaLeiViParticipantWhy indeed is Chaticha Asura not an issue? We don’t apply it to a Safek?
July 28, 2013 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #969308popa_bar_abbaParticipantI dunno. I’m waaaaaaaaaaaay to busy to look that up these days though.
July 28, 2013 5:43 pm at 5:43 pm #969309jewishfeminist02MemberNow that the original thread has been dug up, can we close either this one or that one?
July 28, 2013 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #969310HaLeiViParticipantThey are now holding in middle of different discussions.
July 28, 2013 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #969311jewishfeminist02MemberOkay, but it’s the same topic…why not just say what you have to say in one place?
July 29, 2013 1:38 am at 1:38 am #969312popa_bar_abbaParticipantWe have to say it in two places.
August 4, 2013 7:57 am at 7:57 am #969313YW Moderator-42ModeratorPerhaps misafek you should post in both places :).
Popa, can you post the link to the other thread?
August 4, 2013 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #969314☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantAugust 4, 2013 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #969315☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantNow, a favor from you: if my post is still there, can you restore it (and note that it’s restored)? I’d like to see how I wrote my answer.
done
August 4, 2013 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #969316☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantThanks.
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