Questions on Yoreh Deah, Choshen Mishpat

“You asked what would the din be if you (bear) smacked a calf and knocked it out to then do shechita.

There is a treifus issue here with regard to being attacked by a carnivore. Also since it was knocked by something big. I did not learn treifus.”

This is what I love about Torah that the world will never understand. The Torah gave us the tools to figure out the halacha in any situation that can ever possibly happen ever. Ever. Ev.Er.

If the frai saw how there is nothing in the world that is not governed by the Torah they would do teshuvah in a minute.

On a side note maybe you (popa) and you (bear) should get together and write up some purim Torah after Av.

Popa,

is it a problem to cook milk in one pot and meat in a second pot next to each other on the stove?

Lol. I was thinking to make it even tougher. Look in Shulchan Aruch 333;2, Taz and Sma. Also see Ktzos (316;1), Teshuvas HaRashba (1;987).

In your response to good.jew I think you meant to write in the first warning that the “pot” would become Ossur.

popa, I don’t know if you stopped taking questions now that you passed, but hopefully not, and hopefully you are even better able to answer now than before.

What do you think of the practice mentioned in CM to charge family members interest, as a way to teach them of its “bite” nowadays?

For example, I have a family member who is paying credit card debt (which is a terrible waste of money). I want to pay off the debt on their behalf – but without letting them skip out on the lesson of the pitfalls of financial indiscretion. I think one way to do this would be to hold them to a punishing payback schedule so they can see what it would cost to pay for their mistakes (and as a side point- I plan on gifting the extra money back when they manage to finish paying).

Squeak:

That’s a real doozey!!

Regular credit card interest is not like the ordinary Ribis, because the interest involved is only conditional. Only if the funds are not returned by a certain date, is a surcharge imposed. This payment is more like a fine than Ribis. For you to arbitrarily “fine” your relative in order to teach a “lesson”, you are creating an established interest fee.So, unless you have a really detailed and codified Heter Iska, you’re a usurer.

Another factor to consider is this: In general anything ostentatious, even if the arrangement had existed prior to the loan, may not be performed by the borrower for the lender. Your relative can’t buy you a fancy Shalach Manos basket to you, because it can halachically be considered interest. You can’t borrow his car either, because it can be considered like he is forced to treat you this way due to the loan.

Ribbis is ribbis regardless whether or not you were joking around or teaching a lesson. There are other ways of teaching responsibility that don’t violate ribbis laws. Interest is not something to play around with.

squeak;

I can look until i’m blue in the face, and still won’t find it.

Interest is called NESHECH because of the ‘bite’ it takes out of the one who must pay the interest. Therefore, since all of klal yisroel is one big family, we treat them as family and not business associates. This is why a Jew can lend a non-Jew with interest, but NOT a Jew. Certainly, a family member is called a relative.

The ONLY way around it is with a Heter Iska, that was written BEFORE YOU EXTENDED THE LOAN. If you forgot to write one, it’s too late. You don’t teach people a lesson by acting like a usurer.

Squeak-

No no no no….please, have a look inside!

One may NOT lend his children interest in order to them a lesson.

Bava Metziah 75a – Rav has such a hava minah, and the Gemara rejects it, because it will teach his children to lend with interest, realizing how much can be made (Rashi).

Yorah Deah 160,8 forbids it based on this Gemara, even if his ultimate intention is return the money to them as a gift (see the Taz).

artchill….. chill. You seem to be unaware of the point I am bringing up.

Moq, thanks for the reference. The point you make is valid, and the problem of chinuch bonim is what I recall from when I was learning the halachos (and google brought up R’ Reisman’s sefer which explicitly mentions this also). The situation here has no chinuch application (since the family member is not my child and not a minor).

I am only interested in whether this is right/wrong in halacha considering all the issues. I am not looking for any personal gain here. As I said before, I will be asking formally. I see the answer going one of three potential ways:

1- Assur

2- Muttar, but not something to do (for whatever reason)

3- Muttar, and a good idea to use in practise.

1&2 are the same to me, even though there is an academic difference (which of course I would be interested in).

Ah, I see.

“For example, I have a family member who is paying credit card debt (which is a terrible waste of money). I want to pay off the debt on their behalf – but without letting them skip out on the lesson of the pitfalls of financial indiscretion. I think one way to do this would be to hold them to a punishing payback schedule so they can see what it would cost to pay for their mistakes (and as a side point- I plan on gifting the extra money back when they manage to finish paying).”

I’m sorry, I answered too quickly. You may certainly make them pay the actual credit card debt with it’s accrued to date interest, as this is the sum you put out. But you wish to cut – and I understand why.

But if you’re not speaking of a minor and you’re speaking of a family member that you are not fiscally responsible for, then I believe Rav hava mina would not apply – they would be like any other person, as the chazakah that you are not makpid on them does not apply, as they are not reliant on you. The Gemara explicitly says “Banav U’Bney Beso” – aka, though who are reliantly upon him. Since their needs are essentially his, any fiscal transaction between are pretense. The Gemara, still forbids this based on chinuch.

But you speak of an adult who is not reliant on you. The Gemara wouldn’t apply.

I believe that it would be Ribbis D’Orayasah (as it would be ketzutzah) then, which regardless of your intentions would be ossur. Which is forbidden even if the borrower says that the ribbis is a gift. Due to the fact that in your case the borrower is a totally separate financial entity. There is no chazakah in your case ( assuming this person is not financially reliant on you).

I would suggest signing a heter iska with a merciless “profit” rate. What you do in the future would be irrelevant. they are relatively simple and straightforward (but make sure you and your – well, victim- fully understand it’s terms for it to be halachicly & legally valid- Rabbi Reisman has a few english versions in the end of his sefer).

So this “deal” might come through after all? Ask already, squeak, we’re waiting with bated breath!! (Our next payment is due really soon!!)

The issue is the choice of a ??? ??? ????

This was aked of Horav Mendel Shafran at a Q&A in Stolin BHM in BP

His answer. He has accomplished nothing, Bais Din will admonish him for going to ??????. Case closed. Now he is back at square 1 with the original case.

but I’m afraid that I will be reneging on my promise to post it here.

Perhaps you should be matir neder again, the day before yom hadin.

Popa,

I had a open (but corked) bottle of non-mevushal wine in my fridge and my cleaning lady cleaned the fridge. She touched/moved everything. Can I drink it?

So the wine had been open but you put a cork on it and the cleaning lady moved the bottle around with a cork on it.

If the nochri held a closed bottle whether it was either full or partially full, the bottle is permitted. The reason is that this is not the manner of pouring a libation. If the nochri held an open bottle and lifted it but did not swirl the contents around, the wine is still permitted. If the nochri merely touched the open bottle this is certainly permitted.

However, the issur extends even to leaving an unsealed bottle of wine with a nochri.

If your cleaning lady merely touched the bottle or lifted it, it seems as if this would be permitted. If she swirled the contents around, etc., it would be assur. (This is the shita of R’ Yair Hoffman).

The Rosh to Shabbos 17b says that while the wine owned by a Ger Toshav (a Nochri who accepts the seven Mitzvos of Benei Noach in front of Beis Din) cannot be consumed by a Jew, wine owned by a Jew that was merely touched by a Ger Toshav is permitted. This implies that the reasoning why wine touched by a Nochri is forbidden is only because of the concern of Avodah Zarah, and not because of intermingling (for the reason of intermingling should also prohibit drinking wine touched by a Ger Toshav). This is the shitas HaRashah to Avodah Zarah 29b.

It seems that if there is hefsed merubeh, there might be room for leniency, according to the Ramah. Chances are your clesning lady is not a ger toshav, and therefore wine touched by her would not be allowed.

Since we are unsure if she swirled, poured, etc., it would be best than to not use it.

???’ ????? ???? ????

?’ ????’ ?”?

This is from Orach Chaim but since you have the resources please do a search on the topic at http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/some-basic-halacha-that-is-ignored-in-100-of-shuls-by-99-of-the-kahal

Here is a shaila (maaseh shehoya):

Erev Shabbos a cholent is cooking on a stove. A person is trying to put a piece of bread with a slice of American cheese into the microwave above the stove. The cheese falls off and hits the lid of the cholent pot which is on the fire, and then falls to the floor.

What is the status of the cholent and does the Pot need to be kashered?

isn’t the lid made out of glass?