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May 8, 2013 3:29 am at 3:29 am #609259modexMember
If a poor person gives 15% of his $35,000/year income to tzedaka, and the proceeds make only a small dent in Klal Yisroel’s tzedaka needs, and a rich mulch-millionaire earning $10 Million/year gives 10% of his income to tzedaka, with the proceeds being a huge help towards alleviating Klal Yisroel’s tzedaka needs, all other things being equal…
1) The poor person earns greater Olam Habah than the rich person, considering the much greater sacrifice his tzedaka is to him compared to the rich guy
2) The rich person earns more Olam Hobah than the poor fellow since the bottom-line large amount of dollars he is contributing greatly alleviates the monetary tzedaka needs of Klal Yisroel
If “2”, that would mean a rich fellow can buy himself a place in Olam Haboah, an option unavailable to poorer folks.
May 8, 2013 4:18 am at 4:18 am #951845SaysMeMember3) We don’t know Hashem’s cheshbonos or whose schar mitzva is greater, and can’t and shouldn’t try comparing people?
May 8, 2013 4:20 am at 4:20 am #951846WIYMemberModex
I’m not sure what the answer is but what I can tell you is that I once asked a shaila regarding something similar but different. If I have $100 is it better to give it all to one poor person because then you are helping him significantly or split it up and give $5 here and $10 there…even though they are less significant donations? I was advised to split it up because with if you give $100 to one poor person you get one mitzvah and if you give $1 to $100 poor people you get 100 mitzvos. Its possible that the $100 to one person will be big but not as big as racking up lots of mitzvos of Tzedakah. So if you are not wealthy and want to make the most of your Tzeddaka money spread it around as much as you can.
May 8, 2013 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #951847The little I knowParticipantThere are separate issues here.
1) If someone had the intention to give $100 to one person, then had a second thought to spread it around – several tzaddikim experienced this and felt this was “atzas hayetzer”. They followed their original plan. This experience is common, if we choose to examine our thoughts carefully. I would personally hate to allow my yetzer horah to influence my performance of mitzvos.
2) There is actually a beautiful discussion by the Mahara”l (Gur Aryeh – beginning of Parshas Trumah) where he notes that there were 3 trumos, of which two were each a Machatzis Hashekel, but the third was based on “Yidvenu libo”, according to the generosity of his heart. He explains that this was proportional, not based on the shekel amount. One who had less but gave more (greater in his generosity) was performing the bigger mitzvah. He uses this to explain the famous mishnah of “Eizehu oshir hasomeyach bichelko”. Simcha denotes the joy shared with another, and refers to tzedokoh. Check out the Mahara”l.
May 8, 2013 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #951848Daniel RosenMemberIt is foolish and iresponsible to give 15 percent to tzedaka when you make only $3500 a year and have a family or a wife. If you only have enough money for your most basic of needs you support yourself and your family and don’t give tzedaka. We don’t get olam haba by being an am haaretz.
May 8, 2013 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #951849modexMemberThere is actually a beautiful discussion by the Mahara”l (Gur Aryeh – beginning of Parshas Trumah) where he notes that there were 3 trumos, of which two were each a Machatzis Hashekel, but the third was based on “Yidvenu libo”, according to the generosity of his heart. He explains that this was proportional, not based on the shekel amount. One who had less but gave more (greater in his generosity) was performing the bigger mitzvah.
This seems to answer my question.
Thank You.
May 8, 2013 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #951850Charles ShortMemberIf you give me your money, you get lots of Olam haba; but you give that other guy; don’t count on it.
May 8, 2013 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #951851on the ballParticipantModex: There is heavenly reward that is effort orientated along the lines of ‘Lfum Tzarah Agra’ and ‘Echod hamarbeh v’echod hamam’it ibilvad sheyechaven es libo lashamayim’ – and the outcome is secondary.
And there is heavenly reward that is outcome orientated regardless of effort e.g. Chazal say that if you mistakenly drop money and a poor person picks it up – you get a reward for that and Chazal say that Haman’s grandchildren learnt Torah in Bnei Brak which some explain as his reward for the huge Kiddush Hashem that resulted from his downfall even though he had no such intention.
May 8, 2013 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #951852ToiParticipantthe ksav sofer in last weeks parshah talks exactly about this. He says the Hashem cheshbons schar based on the tovah done for the mikabel, but that theres a special maaleh to the mitzva of one who gives although he’s not rolling in cash.
May 8, 2013 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #951853modexMemberHe says the Hashem cheshbons schar based on the tovah done for the mikabel
Toi: In other words, an oisher can buy a seat in Olam Haboah (by giving tzedakah) whereas an oni cannot. That would be the net effect of that understanding.
May 8, 2013 10:54 pm at 10:54 pm #951854oomisParticipantI don’t presume to know what Hashem cheshbons. Both people are mekayeim the mitzvah. Would you say the poor man deserves less credit if he were to give the money begrudgingly, because it’s harder for him? It’s not our judgment call.
May 8, 2013 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #951855Rav TuvParticipantRachmana liba buey. Attitude is everything. Why you give and how you give is much more important than how much you give.
May 8, 2013 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #951856WIYMembermodex
“In other words, an oisher can buy a seat in Olam Haboah (by giving tzedakah) whereas an oni cannot. “
You have a chiyyuv to give maaser. If you give maaser you did a mitzvah Im not sure what all this talk about buying seats in olam haba is all about. If you do a mitzvah (properly) you get schar if you do an aveirah you get an oinesh. You cant bribe Hashem by giving Tzedaka. If Hashem did not make you an ashir its because its not your tafkid to have that nesayon and your neshama doesn’t need that specific Tikkun. However every Yid has Taryag mitzvos that he is obligated to do.
May 8, 2013 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #951857motheproMemberThis question seems to forget HKB’H’s role in this world.
The rich person is not able to ‘buy himself a place in oilom habo’ any more than the poor man. Rather, he has been given an opportunity to earn his oilom habo in this way, whilst the poor man is given different opportunities to do so.
Do you question how come the rich man does not get the opportunity to ‘buy a place in oilom habo’ by serving Hashem in his destitution?
“Hillel mechayev es ha aniyim, R. Eliezer mechayev es ha ashirim.”
BTW – what makes you think its easier for the rich person to give away $100,000 than for the poor person to give $1,750. Yesh loi moneh, roitzeh mosayim…
May 9, 2013 4:24 am at 4:24 am #951858HaLeiViParticipantRebbe Mechabed Es Ha’ashirim. The fact is they are doing more Mitzvos. As mentioned, the fact that they were given the opportunity for this Mitzva is Hashem’s Cheshbon.
The Maharal actually writes elsewhere that Tzedaka goes by the dollar amount, and it all adds up to one lump sum. With this he argues on the notion to split it up. He says there is no greater Mitzva by giving $50 twice than giving $100 once. Truth is, even those that say to split it up don’t necessarily mean that it is another Mitzva, rather it breaks your Teva another time.
Giving more is like doing another Mitzva. Giving when it is hard gets you more S’char within this Mitzva but it is not another Mitzva. In fact, the S’char of doing another Mitzva is more than the S’char of Tzar. This is seen from Shaluach Haken. It is considered an easy Mitzva while used as an example of where the S’char can be the greatest. This is how the Maharal explains that Mishna.
Oomis, we don’t know Hashem’s Cheshbonos in His detailed dealings with specific people. However, He gave us a Torah in which He describes His attitude and yardstick. Anna Nafshi K’savis Yehavis, I wrote myself down and gave it over — Rashei Teivos of Anochi as explained in Maseches Shabbos.
May 9, 2013 5:11 am at 5:11 am #951859modexMemberRebbe Mechabed Es Ha’ashirim. The fact is they are doing more Mitzvos. As mentioned, the fact that they were given the opportunity for this Mitzva is Hashem’s Cheshbon.
So, apparently, every Jew should do his utmost to become rich (and as excessively wealthy as attainable), so that he can get many more mitzvos by giving more tzedakah.
May 9, 2013 7:39 am at 7:39 am #951860interjectionParticipantModex:
here’s a similar example. A woman’s chiyuv in Limud Torah comes from encouraging her sons and husband to learn. But not every woman has the mazel of getting married as early as some others. Is a woman who only wants a kollel guy and hasn’t found her husband until much later held accountable for not fulfilling the chiyuv? Is she any less of a person in front of G-d?
If G-d expected you to give 100000 maaser each year, you would be earning a salary to justify giving away that amount. You will get the schar on what you give and we have no clue who earns more schar. By all means daven for more money but be real with yourself. Don’t fool yourself into thinking its because you want to buy your way into olam haba. G-d isn’t a cashier and even if you’ve fooled yourself G-d knows your true intentions.
May 9, 2013 3:37 pm at 3:37 pm #951861Avram in MDParticipantmodex,
Toi: In other words, an oisher can buy a seat in Olam Haboah (by giving tzedakah) whereas an oni cannot. That would be the net effect of that understanding.
No it would not. Hashem is in control of the world and knows our intentions. Yes in general a million dollars to tzedaka has a greater impact than a dollar, but we can never truly know the impact of our actions on the world. A single dollar given purely can be the tipping point that saves a life, whereas a million dollars given not so purely can be embezzled and never reach the receiver. Which amount had more impact in that case?
Hashem didn’t give us the mission to become rich or to become poor. He gave us the mission to serve Him as best as we can, and I believe He will sort out the rest.
So, apparently, every Jew should do his utmost to become rich (and as excessively wealthy as attainable), so that he can get many more mitzvos by giving more tzedakah.
That seems to be the yetzer hara’s argument.
May 9, 2013 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #951862Daniel RosenMemberThe mitzvah of tzedaka iss a very important mitzvah. However, if you do not have money left over after your basic needs you are patur. There is no mitzvah of giving tzedaka in such a situation if it is going to cause severe stress, shalom bayis issues or if you have loans you need to pay back and just don’t.
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