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A ben torah has better ways to spend his free time than YWN. Plants vs Zombies for example is a much more eidele way to waste your time 🙂
Apushatatid
Hmm..I guess i’m not a ben torah;) I never played that game!
This shadchan I’m going to see says I should bring along a picture with my resume. I am against pictures, and generally do not give them. I told her that I don’t have an official picture. When she saw I was hesitent, she told me that she sees so many girls that she needs it to remember who I and that she wouldn’t show anyone. She said it could just be a picture with a group of girls. Should I bring one or not? If I don’t bring it then she may think I don’t trust that she won’t show it. And if I do bring it, maybe she will show the picture to somebody.
I think you should bring it and just make sure she knows that you dont want your pic in everyone elses pocket! (I think you cld usually trust a professional shadchan if she says she wont show it. Not ALWAYS, but usually! )
I have never met a shadchan I could trust.
Sh’d’ch’n= SHeker Dover, Kessef Notel.
Popa – Whoo hoo!!!!
Many want to see a pic of the girl before because they don’t want to waste their time if they are really not attracted. I know a pic can give off a different impression as to what they really look like, but hey it’s their loss by not giving it a try. As the famous saying is “You will marry your bashert.” If that’s the case you shouldn’t worry because if the person is your bashert, it’ll work out regardless what you look like in the pic!
I’m jumping in without reading all the comments- don’t have enough patience-good thing I’m already married. : )
My 2 cents say this, a girl or guy can be photogenic or not but it’s very hard to see a person’s ‘chen’ in a picture. Beauty most often is discovered through getting to a know a person and his ‘penimius’.
Basically, I met her and it was fine. She didn’t even ask for it. I guess I made myself clear on the phone.
*I’m not unphotogenic, I’m just against a girl’s looks being the first impressions of a girl many boys have, even before they look into her!*
I have a problem… my pic looks much better than i do in real life 🙂
are you joking? so send the picture to everyone and anyone that you could think of!
And then when we meet , he’ll be thinking “she’s not the supermodel from the picture…her ugly stepsister maybe?” lol Not ugly, I’m far from it. But still not as good as my pic.
who cares. he’ll have that good impression in his mind.
I think demanding pics from girls is really shallow. Only once a guy asked for it and I told the shadchan I will only give him a pic of me if he gives me one of him too. Its a two way street here!
Hey RFS, i had a shidduch where the boy wanted a pic of me, so i figured why not ask for a picture of him!! I got the picture, and i must say, he looked really good. he looked mature and put together… But that all changed when i met him in real life, he was nothing that i imagined!! At the end, i said no. You can look good in pictures, but that means anything except for maybe “good looks”!! Your personality makes all of the difference!!
collegegrad, I agree with you 100%. To be honest, I never even heard of this until I saw this thread a few weeks ago. I got really upset. I have more to say on the subject, but I’m pretty sure the mods won’t let it through.
i send out my pic bec i’ve had situtaions where the guy drops dead when he sees me bec im so gorgeous, so sending a pic makes it easier for him to digest
are you really calling yourself that pretty? look in the mirror again. did you mean that you are so ugly that you dont want him to faint?
nope adorable i have been mistaken for celebrities on dates and asked for autographs. and pretty sure the celebs weren’t ugly
Ok you have a really healthy self esteem.
Wow ootiny!! So how does it feel to be pretty???
rfs, what you consider to be problem, I really don’t see as a problem. I think it’s great to have a really good picture of yourself.
ootiny, I personally would be intimidated dating an extremely pretty girl. I like plain and ordinary…but attractive, of course.
I know this sounds awful but it seems like the attractive girls have no problem sending a pic while the ones who feel they aren’t nice looking (maybe it’s in your head) don’t feel it is fair.
Imho, I think that sounds about right. Those who feel comfortable should send a pic, those who don’t shouldn’t. I believe the Gamara touches upon this point to that extent by Tu B’av, the girls who had beauty to offer, offered that, those who had other things, like yichus offered that, but they were all given a chance face to face to say what they had to offer.
Saying that an unattractive girl should send a photo isn’t fair. Though I found many girls who have a low self esteem tend to feel unattractive while they are mistaken.
When I was dating I did request photographs when the girl was oot,
or said not to be slim. There is nothing wrong with seeing a photo, especially when the requesting party is particular. It only saves the opposite party time and false hopes and unnecessary emotional distress. It is better to get a no from someone you never saw, maybe they’re not that handsome, bright, or nice.
However once you meet a guy/girl who seems handsome, bright, and nice,
Then he/she tells you no after first date, not so pleasant.
I’m talking from experience, so all you posters who base your opinions on theories, talk to real people who have gone through this before you assume you have it all figured out.
ootinny; i’m happy to hear. Whom have you gotten? 🙂
I’ve gotten celebs too, like George burns. j/k
i hate this whole picture thing but what i hate more is when im setting sb up and for example the girls doesnt wanna show a picture they make her meet somewhere so they can look her up and down (or they dont ebven tell her and snup up on her at work) and then they decide if they should go out w her or if they should let there son go out with her.. were not talking about meeting her and talking just checking her up and down
If one of those shallow boys requests a picture, send a photoshopped pic.
The coffee room has been really boring lately- so I just couldn’t resist bumping this thread to hopefully liven it up a little- now with a lot of the main ppl gone 🙁 the life has kinda slowly drained from the cr!
I’m so happy to be from the sub-main ppl.
wow don’t even get me started on this….. Someone told me that his son has a right to see a picture before the date so he should know if he is wasting his time or not because he wants a good looking wife so that his children will be good looking.
I said what about the chinuch of the kids. good looking or not, it’s the mother who is the kids first teacher. Shouldnt hashkafos and middos be more important?
He didn’t have an answer.
good looking wife so that his children will be good looking.
How selfless of him. But I have a helpful suggestion- he doesn’t need to ask for a picture to achieve this goal. If the girl he marries turns out to be super ugly he can just ask adoption agencies for pictures of attractive kids. Nothing to lose by this, since he wouldn’t have married the ugly girl anyway its not like they would have had biological children and this way they are happily married, with beautiful kids, plus the beautiful orphaned kids have a home. Win, win, win.
as I said…don’t get me started…
Ok, I think I’m gonna start asking for boys pictures!
Providing a picture is proper hishtadlus if it gives you a better chance of getting a first date. Supposedly there is a shidduch crisis out there. Perhaps we should make takanos that a girl can only give a picture to a boy who is within a certain age gap of her.
There is a shidduch crisis- but maybe its BECAUSE evryone has ridiculous expectations- maybe just let them go out and see- in the old days there seemed to be no shidduch crisis- maybe the system is broken- maybe its not the best way for it to be handled- maybe the shidduch crisis is because a guy wont go out with a girl without a picture- but most girls don’t agree with pictures being given out- some are not against it- but im pretty sure not many if at all are for it- and its not histadlus- the checking out is histadlus the first date is histadlus but a picture im pretty sure is not- no one is saying u can’t ask about her looks etc- but at a certain point its going to far- it has to stop somewhere- we r NOT pieces of meat for sale or come pick ur perfect match etc- we r human with feelings and would like to be treated as such- most of the time the girl has met the shadchan- trust the shadchan! Seriously! Im not evn getting into halacha as to whether or not they can look at those pictures cuz im not a guy and i dont no all the details- but I do know it makes a girl feel more degraded like she’s a thing and not a person and if a guy asks for a pic i prob wuldnt wanna go out with him anyway- just my personal opinion- if im not worth the time of a first date unless i look a certain way then he’s not worth my time!
You say that a first date is hishtaus. But how do you expect to get that first date. From what I read here in the CR it sounds like every guy has a long list of girls. So how do you expect to get to the top of that list? Every little bit counts and if you have a nice picture that can help too. It’s not that the boys are shallow, they are human. No shadchan ever told me that a girl is ugly or has bad middos; they tell what you want to hear. So if a boy has to choose between a whole bunch of “great” girls what is he basing that decision on? It’s the little differences-one girl has a better job than another, has a better education, family etc. But even after all those things there is still a list, so why not go out with the prettiest first? Not only that, but all those little things that a resume might list will sound that much better when he has a picture in his mind that he likes. This isn’t shallowness, it is human nature. So take advantage of it!
YWN-42 “Providing a picture is proper hishtadlus if it gives you a better chance of getting a first date. Supposedly there is a shidduch crisis out there. Perhaps we should make takanos that a girl can only give a picture to a boy who is within a certain age gap of her.”
HaQer “So if a boy has to choose between a whole bunch of “great” girls what is he basing that decision on? It’s the little differences-one girl has a better job than another, has a better education, family etc. But even after all those things there is still a list, so why not go out with the prettiest first? Not only that, but all those little things that a resume might list will sound that much better when he has a picture in his mind that he likes.”
I should allow myself to get to a first date because of attraction? I’m worth more than that. Have some self respect people!
It is highly demeaning. I will never give a picture and I do not want to see one. It ought to be unacceptable to give a picture to a boy or his mother.
“This isn’t shallowness, it is human nature. So take advantage of it!”
Human nature is such that the more a person cares about a person, the more beautiful they become.
Looks are meant to be an enhancer and everything else should be the deciding factors. Sending the picture breeds shallowness and, unfortunately, it results in the reverse situation where the looks determine what makes or breaks the shidduch.
bein_hasdorim – “I know this sounds awful but it seems like the attractive girls have no problem sending a pic while the ones who feel they aren’t nice looking (maybe it’s in your head) don’t feel it is fair”
Personally think I am a nine but been told I am a ten. I have been set up because of my looks but I automatically reject the shidduch when I am told that he has said he needs a pretty girl.
Anything else I say will be censored, but your theory is wrong.
i know this is gonna sound shallow to some people…but the reality is the guy has to be attracted to the girl plain and simple. Yes a picture doesnt show the exact reality, but it gives the boy a general idea of her looks. Imagine a guy goes out with a girl, and one minute into the date he realizes hes not in the slightest way attracted to her. Hes wasting both his and her time. A picture is a way to avoid a situation like that.
far east: I know the way guys’ minds work, yet still, the mentality you mention makes girls like me sick. I believe that anyone who thinks he has found the one within the first minute, is delusional. Anything that starts that fast can end the same way. He can think she’s nice looking but he absolutely should not be attracted within the first minute, such a guy would seem unstable to me.
Any girl can be beautiful and she should not be reduced to her mere physical attractiveness, no matter how exemplary.
” He can think she’s nice looking but he absolutely should not be attracted within the first minute, such a guy would seem unstable to me.”
So according to you all guys are unstable? Thats the way of the world, you may find it sick or disgusting, but thats pure human instinct. When you look at a guy, do you not know immediatly weather your or attracted or not?
Im not sure why you think im saying guys know the girl is the one immediatly based on her looks, but its a starting point and it is important. Obviously its not the only factor when deciding who to marry. I dont think any guys would disagree on that
“So according to you all guys are unstable? Thats the way of the world, you may find it sick or disgusting, but thats pure human instinct. When you look at a guy, do you not know immediatly weather your or attracted or not?”
It is one thing to acknowledge that the person is attractive. To actually be attracted within one minute, that concept is from Hollywood.
Looks should not be a starting point! Looks should be a bonus!
Calling popa! Please put this girl in her place. Don’t make me do it, it’s beneath me :p
maybe I agree with her. I would never go out with a girl who wanted me for my looks.
hee hee
Thank you interjection for voicing the way a lot if not most of the girls in the shidduch world or “on the market”- (I hate that phrase btw)- feel!!! you are awesome!!!!
squeak- as far as i can see its haQer, far east and everyone else that needs to be put in his place
interjection- On what basis are you saying that being immediatly attracted to someone is a hollywood concept. Immediatly fallling in love may be a hollywood concept, but attraction is a whole other concept.
Im gonna assume your a girl, and how can you possibly understand the tayvas men have when they see a women. Its foolish to ignore looks and just assume a man will love you for who you are. Looks are a part of who you are. And no im not saying you need to be a skinny model to be attractive. Looks are relative and you should’nt assume guys who want girls who they are attracted to all want the same look
Interjection, I want to say that I agree 100% with your posts. They are right on. You’re gonna find one special bochur who doesn’t look at your appearance first but is more interested with your pnemius. Don’t pay attention to naysayers.
Popa, you’re just being argumentative and clearly haven’t seen her comments yet.
I am a nine but been told I am a ten. I have been set up because of my looks but I automatically reject the shidduch
There is nothing in that that you could agree with.
“i send out my pic bec i’ve had situtaions where the guy drops dead when he sees me bec im so gorgeous, so sending a pic makes it easier for him to digest”
I am BEGGING someone to tell me this was written in jest…
As the line here is (99%) drawn between men and women, perhaps the women should come to the conclusion that they really just don’t get the reality of what men are?!
[Or if they would rather, they can think we’re all messed up. Either way just give it up already.]
I am a nine but been told I am a ten. I have been set up because of my looks but I automatically reject the shidduch
There is nothing in that that you could agree with.
That is correct. I could never agree with that. I am a 10.
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