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Sorry if this came up before, guess we can just bring it to the top again!
I was just speaking to a friend of mine who was asking me what I think of her attaching a picture with her “shidduch resume”. She doesn’t feel too comfortable doing it but was told that that is what is done nowadays, and she should do it too to have an ‘even chance’.
Is that really true?? I’m not even sure if that’s so tznius!
Opinions, anyone?
This topic was already covered extensively on another thread.
Please see our collective pearls of wisdom at aforementioned thread.
(as well as my own comments which cover the issue very fairly and thoroughly.)
if you have a hard time ask the mods to direct you G-luck, Omnivore.
vitameatavegamin, I agree with you. Aside from lacking tznius like you said, it is entirely inappropriate.
On the other hand, if you decline, one might think you are hiding something,
A neighbor of mine was once asked to give a picture of a girl, she smartly answered- when will i get it back??
the other side does not need to keep picture of all the girls ever redt to their sons!i thinks thats when the pictures become a problem.
vitameatavegamin:
one of the funniest episodes of all time.
Many professional and semi-professional shadchanim ask for a picture so that they have a face to go with the resume. It helps them remember the person they are reading about. If you are working with someone reliable and you don’t want them to show the picture to anyone else say so and they will most likely accommodate you. Pictures do not usually portray people appropriately so giving a picture so the prospect can judge you by your looks is inappropriate and rude.
Another reason to avoid “professional” shadchanim.
80: I guess you’re a “Baal Teshuva” like me, I used to watch tv, so I know what you’re talking about.
So, you want a picture, let me draw you a picture……
I’m no expert in shidduchim but I’ll share with you a personal experience in getting a picture beforehand.
I had to pick her up from the airport and used the “excuse” that I had to know what she looked like or I wouldn’t be able to find her.
After taking one look at the picture I already decided that I wasn’t interested, but obviously I didn’t want to hurt her feelings and continued on with the date as planned.
Anyway, after everyone got off the plane there was only one frum girl on the flight and she was definitely not the one in the picture. We ended up going out a handful of times but it didn’t work out at the end.
Keep in mind that first impressions are very important and even if a bochur would happen to find a potential date to be attractive, a particular pose or portrait might not be his taste.
So, in my opinion, I think that the cons outweigh the pros and pictures should be avoided.
(I see no problem with a shadchan having a picture in her records to help her remember the person.)
Dr. Pepper: Back in your day they were into this picture mishagass already?
Must they be called resumes? Sounds so commercial. How about “bio”.
Mayan
youve got some splainin to do.
Pictures MUST be a two-way street. You give, you get!
They also must be returned.
Better yet… don’t give and don’t get.
P.S. b_h, what happened to you? Did the veibel make a feminist outta ya?
volvie; I don’t know what ur talking about!
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(Shhh! Zi Leint maneh Rayd.) 😉
With all due respect, volvie, a woman is allowed to be attracted to her mate too…not only does he have to live with her, she also has to live with him. What’s wrong with her wanting to see a picture also? (and don’t say that it’s not tznius, since that would be more of the issue for MEN)
plaid very well said! there is nothing wrong with the shadchan having a picture on file but there is no reason for the boy to see a picture of the girl or vice versa. looks are deceiving and u cant tell much by looking at a picture.
maybe girls should get pictures of the boys too! this is absurd! and sick! many of the times, its for the mother in law. and who is going to have to live with this person, and see his/her face every day?!
“Must they be called resumes? Sounds so commercial. How about “bio”. “
ITA, and I call them profiles (which I also dislike, but it’s better than resumes – my girls are not going for job interviews).
I am opposed to the picture sharing, not on tzniusdig grounds, but because I think it is presumptuous of either the boy OR girl to base their decision to go out with someone, on how a photo looks to them. I have given pics out when requested by the shadchanim, but I have not asked for one in return (YET), and I will tell the shadchan my kids are not that shallow that they will not agree to a date unless they see what he looks like first. Only exception that I agree with – if the boy or girl is from a long distance away. There is no point in flying someone in at great expense either to you or to the potential shidduch, unless you know from the outset that they might be attracted to each other, and thus there is a shaychus to doing so. Just my opinion, folks.
Why all this misguided focus on the physical attributes of our fellow Yidden? It is neither the primary focus (far from it in fact) of finding an appropriate shidduch, nor anywhere near the top of the list.
There are so many far more important issues in determining who is a proper mate. Why not increase the focus on those areas?
It’s not misguided focus for someone to be attracted physically to the person whom they are dating. Hashem gave us that feeling for a reason. But you are right that we should focus on OTHER attributes, such as middos, personality, intelligence, thoughtfulness, etc., though looks DO play a part (and are extremely subjective).
volvie- I’m not as old as you think I am, the incident happened 10 years ago.
I wasn’t aware of any “picture mishagass” (doesn’t mean there wasn’t any) I just felt I needed to know what she looked like so I would know who to look out for.
(This was not to see if I found her attractive, it was after I already agreed to go out with her and she booked a flight. And for the record I insisted on flying out to her until she made a good argument as to why she had to be in New York anyway.)
first of all, before anyone gives a picture they’re ganna make sure its a good picture of them- not necessarily what they look like! and why should the boy see the picture- so he can say she’s not pretty enough, and not even give the girl a chance?!?!
i don think pics are good, i girl was redt and i wanted 2 c a pic, so the shadchan gave me one, i didnt like it cuz dhe looked i don even remember…something so petty, a few days later my mother pointed her out at s wedding!!!we went out n lived happily ever after!!!
its easier 2 say no then yea, so with a pic u have no obligation so betr 2 say no, once u go out u think more maturely!!!
u see her true peronality!!!!
Is anyone really surprised that people ask for a photo? It has become “normal” to ask the most ridiculous questions already, this is the next logical step in “looking into the shidduch”.
I cant take credit for this, but I was told that the 1st bachur who asked for a photo, did so because he misunderstood his Rebbe who told him, “the most important thing to look for in a shidduch are her middos”.
The gemara says one must see his wife before marrying, so looks are important. Therefore, won’t a picture save a lot of time if somebody is not attracted? Especially if they are coming from out of town just for this date.
BTW, for a girl to see a guys picture is in some ways less relevant. My understanding is that women judge guys by their accomplishments and confidence which you can’t get from a picture. If women judged by looks, then half of the yeshivishe oilam would be without wives, since there are so many shlumpy, unshaven, mismatched guys walking the streets of heimishe neighborhoods. It is a miracle that women are so forgiving.
PY20: No one is proposing that he not see her before he marries her. That point is irrelevant to this.
When I was just out of seminary, a mother of boys in shidduchim asked to see a picture of my sem class. She pointed to one particular girl, who happened to be a very organized girl with great middos, and said, “This one would probably be good for my ‘Yitzy’, but she has a bit of a double chin.” I told her that it was just that picture, and that really the girl was thin, but she wouldn’t listen.
One look at one picture was all it took for her to eliminate a wonderful girl!
Who needs a picture??? Take a walk on the avenue and see who Hashem puts together, it is very interesting how “OUR” perceptions of a good shidduch or even of beauty have no basis in reality when you see Hashem’s work and his sense of humor. How many times do you see a couple and say “I don’t get it? After going out with so many girls this is the one he picked?” and vice a versa. Or you see this short guy with this tall girl or a very tall guy with the tiniest of wives. You also see that Hashem blinds people when it comes to shidduchim and hence the phrase “love is blind”. How many times did you see a gorgeous young woman with a plain guy or a handsome young man with a plain jane?
People should trust in Hashem and stop being so shallow that they need to see photos before accepting a shidduch. Are we running a modeling agency that this should be a requirement to get the job of husband or wife? Shtusim!
“People should trust in Hashem and stop being so shallow that they need to see photos before accepting a shidduch. Are we running a modeling agency that this should be a requirement to get the job of husband or wife? Shtusim!”
Amein to that! DOUBLE Shtusim (or shtuyos)!
I have friends that we all knew were looking for a supermodel, then they ended up picking some really under average looking girl
and they are convinced that they got a supermodel.
Beauty, really is in the eye of the beholder!
Just remember, you might be turning down someone that’s just not photogenic.
There is a certain chein that come with a live person
that no picture or photograph can capture or convey.
This chein is usually the major factor in what make someone go for the shidduch.
Whoever judges a person from a picture is not making a sound decision, for they do
not have all the information. One who really wants to find their BASHERTEH,
should tremble at the concept of eliminating a potential BASHERTEH by glancing
at a mere photograph, that captures only a millisecond of a whole Olam Katan!
EDITED
A photograph is a one dimensional image unlike the human being who is multi-dimentional. And I am not speaking about size!!!! Maybe the size 2 girls should be looking for guys with a six pack! Either way a one dimensional photo would not reveal the true “PICTURE”!
In addition, anyone using a computer can “photo-shop” a picture to make it look better than the original. You can slice of a few inches from the hips, correct the blemishes on a face, add some extra hair length, change brown eyes to blue, etc.
EDITED
if a pic is one dimensional, then what would you call a resume??? i would call it no dimensional. they are all lifeless boring pieces of paper that make no one want to go out with anyone. at least with a pic, you get some sort of idea what the person is like.
and its not just looks that a pic conveys. you can tell a LOT from a pic…
im referring to boys’ mothers asking for pics. when these mothers look through a sea of papers, it can be quite overwhelming. all the girls sound the same. at least if you have a pic you realize that you’re dealing with a person.
there is so much you can see from a pic – theres a lot in a smile. and you can tell a lot by how someone stands, if they’re looking straight at the camera or not. if they’re confident, or timid. you can usually see personality from a pic too. and you can see if someone is a fast paced person or more relaxed, slower paced. and you can see if someone is classy, sophisticated, or more down-to-earth type. im not saying everyone can see all this, but if you are the type that can, pics can be really really helpful.
melechalmaklo, if anyone thinks they can ascertain that from a pic, they are not only sadly very mistaken but they are possibly setting themselves up for trouble in marriage.
i personally deal w shidduchim a lot and i set ppl up all the time. without a pic its impossible. ppl are not usually expressive enough to clearly and sufficiently give over a real impression of the person so that you can understand what they need in a girl/boy.
at least if you have a pic, you can figure out yourself what they need. someone can explain to me from today till tomorrow what someone is all about, but when i see a pic, i go “oh! ok, i get it.”
If you think you can make judgment calls from a pic, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment. A picture can easily lead to the opposite conclusion than reality. This is aside from the points about pictures being problematic for so many other reasons.
If you think you can make judgment calls from a pic, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment. A picture can easily lead to the opposite conclusion than reality.
So can a reference call.
The Wolf
volvie –
we’re not talking about marrying someone from a pic. by the time you have dated the person, you have seen them in all dimensions. the point of the pic is to give you an idea of what the person is before you meet them. yes, some pics look much better than real life, but that’s not the point of the pic. regardless of whether the person looks good or not, you can see certain attributes from a pic.
and if you are disappointed bc of the pic, think of all those doa’s that can be prevented…
doesnt a picture or phone call give an impression that can ruin a date?
If anyone want to judge a person by a picture or telephone voice then they deserve what they get! Pictures can be photoshopped and of course a person would be foolish to submit anything but the photo that portrays them in the best light. It might be a picture from a year or even 3 years ago. In addition, imagining what a person looks like from their phone voice is also very misguided.
But if the shadchan needs a photo to remember who they met and spoke to, that is another issue altogehter.
In EY we don’t work with resumes or pictures except in unusual circumstances. Information, family, referrences, etc.
I completely disagree with showing a picture! How many times did you hear from happily married couples that they would say that thay always wanted a size whatever girl or this and this color hair and eyes and they ended up getting the exact opposite! Once they met they were able to see through the external and marry them for their inner qualities. But if they would have rejected going out because of a picture…..
If the picture is for the shadchan as a way to remember who they spoke with and met, I have no problems with it, as long as it stays in the shadchans file. I do have an issue with people demanding to see a picture before agreeing to a date. I have a neighbor with a daughter entering the shidduchim phase of her life and when they were asked for a photo (well, demanded is more accurate) of their daughter, they were so turned off by the shadchans request, how it was “requested” and the reasons given for the request that they promptly sent over a photo of their daughter from her kindergaten graduation.
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