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Anybody have a dog or cat? Any specefic issues regarding Halachah and shabbos…I dont see any issues, I think a dog would be good for the kids…
there are many issues, just a few quickly
a pet is Muktzah on Shabbos.
in some circumstances walking a pet with a leash can be carrying.
you cant feed a pet with mixtures of meat and milk, you have to be very careful reading the labels.
Various issues that can come up:
Milk/meat mixtures: Pet food does not have to be kosher, but it cannot have milk/meat cooked together.
Pesach: You cannot feed your animals chometz on Pesach.
Shabbos: Pets may be muktzeh on Shabbos. Consult your LOR. You may also have issues with trapping animals*.
Spaying/neutering: This could also be a potential problem. Contact your LOR.
The Wolf
* Many years ago, some of our hamsters escaped on Shabbos and had the run of the apartment until Shabbos was over. It was actually quite fun watching one of them climb the steps in our apartment. 🙂
We have cats. Mod-80 mentioned some of the issues. Caring for animals is seen in the Jewish tradition as something that can inspire us to be more caring about our fellow humans. Cats and dogs, the most popular pets, have also provided direct human benefit: Cats because they control rodents (and indeed many small storeowners in NY continue to use them for this) and dogs for a wide variety of work.
Here are some more halachic issues:
While you can’t feed your pet a meat and milk mixture, you CAN feed it a poultry and milk mixture because the accepted halachah is that poultry is meat d’rabbanon.
You must always be sure your pet has food before you eat.
You can’t feed your pet chametz on pesach but you can feed it kitniyot even if you are Ashkenazic.
If your pet, without your prompting, uses its claws to cut toilet paper on Shabat, you can use the cut toilet paper. (I actually asked this shilah and that was the response I got!)
Cat litter is muktzah on Shabat; you can’t make blessings near the litter boxes.
Pikuach nefesh does not apply to animals.
Some communities have the minhag of not keeping non-kosher animals as pets; I’m not sure what is the source for this. This would eliminate cats and dogs, the two most popular pets.
My Rav told me that my wife should try not to look at non-kosher animals when she’s pregnant. This precluded my ability to buy a dog or cat.
So I got a kid.
For the umpteenth time, all halacha li’maseh shailos should be asked to qualified Rov, not put to a vote by a board of anonymous bloggers who may or may not have any idea what they’re talking about.
For the manyeth time as well, there is nothing wrong with discussing Torah. It is actually recommended. I wish there were only more such discussions on this site. There is a disclaimer on the Bais Medrash link, and there are numerous comments to the same effect. I think that should suffice.
RuffRuff – how does your owner treat you on Shabbos?:)
I believe there are issues with walking a dog on a leash on Shabbat is there is no erev.
Blueberrymuffin,
Did the donkey of Rabbi Pinchos ben Ya’ir scratch itself on Shabbos? Is it Muktza to itself, too? On the one hand, I would say that not, but on the other hand, I don’t think the Chachamim made a special exception for donkeys. I must know the answer.
mike: I spoke to an ORTHO Rav who did research. The answer was no.
Mike,
Are you sure about the stroking part? The Gemara says that Rabba slid his child on the sides of his donkey, for play. He explained that as long as he’s not sitting on it, the prohibition of using an animal on Shabbos doesn’t apply. Obviously it wasn’t a problem of Muktza, either. The only thing is that in that case, you are not actually moving any part of the animal, while by stroking you are picking up and moving its hair.
TMB, no problem or no pet?
No pet. But not necessarily a strictly assur min halacha; rather its not appropriate. (i.e. not everything permissible should be done.)
it is not assur to have a pet
doing so however is fraught with practical Halachic and Hashgufic problems
i dont know anyone who has a pet or would consider having one, its not even a remote consideration.
but for others, who are presently holding somewhere else, it certainly is not assur, but should not be entered into lightly.
What are some of the hashkafic problems with having pets and which pets do they apply to?
mikehall12382,
Thank you!
a few that come to mind
anthropomorphizing an animal, treating it like a person
treating it like a member of the family
being fooled and showering Love upon it
making decisions such as how to utilize your precious time, taking the animal into consideration
dealing with the Halachic pitfalls
giving the animal your food, buying its food, spending money on it, sometimes a great amount for health issues, when perhaps it should go to a Jew instead.
spending time caring for it
i think i had some duplicates there
just kind of thinking out loud
My Rav told me that my wife should try not to look at non-kosher animals when she’s pregnant. This precluded my ability to buy a dog or cat.
So I got a kid.
I believe this is a standard Lubavitch Shittah.
it is not assur to have a pet
doing so however is fraught with practical Halachic and Hashgufic problems
i dont know anyone who has a pet or would consider having one, its not even a remote consideration.
but for others, who are presently holding somewhere else, it certainly is not assur, but should not be entered into lightly.
I know of two cases of dog owners. One where the owner is blind, the other where there is a disabled child & the child’s Rosh Yeshiva suggested it.
In addition, many people own fish, where many of these halachas would apply as well.
yes there are definitely cases where it is a good idea to have a pet.
it is not assur
fish? no comparison to the problems caused by a cat or dog.
i was told that you can only pet an animal that depends on you and which you own on shabbos…i used to pet my friends dog but when i heard that i stopped doing it…but he can, its his dog
what about seeing eye dogs…
My off-the-cuff guess would be that since seeing-eye dogs serve a functional purpose for Shabbos, they are not muktzah.
As always, CYLOR.
The Wolf
Mr. 80:
Agreed. But one should still know the applicable Halachos for Fish, such as feeding them first.
Actually, a grandson of the Rosh writes in his Sefer that it is a Minhag Chasidim to have a pet so that one can be Mekayem the Mitzva of feeding your animals before yourself. I think CharlieHall alluded to this concept, earlier.
One thing to keep in mind, is what the Gemara says, not to have a dog that scares people.
ruffruff
i would guess they were talking about goats and chickens and the like, animals that worked or were eaten i dont think anyone had “pets” living in their house in those days. maybe a cat to keep away mice.
I wanted a dog growing up but my father is allergic to animal fur, so that’s that. Now why is it a hashkafic problem to take the animal into consideration when deciding how to use your time?
BTW, I know a rov whose wife has 3 outside cats.
Now why is it a hashkafic problem to take the animal into consideration when deciding how to use your time?
Bittul Torah.
you asked me a question
i answered you
if you want further elucidation, think about it
On another note, why does it seem that a lot of Frum people (especially in the bp area) are terrified of cats and dogs? As a cat owner i always find it amusing when my neighbors cower in fear everytime they see my cat stare at them from the window. Also, seeing a full grown man running away from a little old woman walking a little old poodle is so sad.
I’m debating whether I should say what I want to say since it might make an Ayin Hora…ok – here goes:
I’m really, really impressed with the way everyone here is stating their opinion so respectively, without attacking anyone because they don’t agree (as is the case in many other threads…). Let’s keep it up!
why does it seem that a lot of Frum people (especially in the bp area) are terrified of cats and dogs?
We once had this discussion and what we decided was that ppl are afraid of things they’re not used to. Since the majority of the frum population does not own a cat or dog (for the many reasons stated above) many frum yidden are afraid of these pets. Personally, I LOVE all animals (except for insects) and am usually not afraid of them!
Mr. 80,
In that case, they would have had the animal regardless. So he is obviously talking about getting an animal even for no technical usage, just for the purpose of feeding it. Once that is the case, he could be talking about a dog, cat, goat, raccoon or baboon.
Pet food on Pesach must definitely be free of Chametz. However, Basar Bechalav is not so clear. It is a Machlokes Acharonim between the Chasam Sofer (Assur) and the Noda Biyhuda (Muttar in the Dagul Mervava) as to whether Basar Neveilah Bechalav is Muttar Behana’ah. I personally do not understand how this argument exists since the Ramabam explicitly states (Peirush Hamishnayos Kereisos Perek 3) that it is Muttar. You should consult your rav as in some cases it me be permitted to have pet food with meat and milk in it.
There is no real Heter for spaying/neutering a pet as the P’sak is brought down that the Issur of Sirus applies to non-Jews as well and giving a non-Jew a pet to spay/neuter would be Lifnei Iver.
Oh, and the Chochmas Adam endorses having a pet (he may say dog explicitly) because it teaches people how to treat others. He does make a claim that having two or more pets is Chukas Hagoyim though.
Are you paying full tuition? If not, I suggest not purchasing a new mouth to feed
get a wind up pet.
no bathroom, no feedings
“There is no real Heter for spaying/neutering a pet “
That is NOT the psak I got.
Then I would love to hear the rationale because there is no way to get around the Lifnei Iver part. The one brilliant plan I heard was to give it to a random non-Jew for a while or something without saying anything and hope they give it to a doctor to do it on their own. That way there is no Lifnei D’lifnei because the non-Jew is not responsible for Lifnei Iver.
so, if you follow the eating out dairy post, u need not worry about anything with pets provided you have your children who are under bar-bat mitzva walk the dog , pet the dog, feed the dog etc.
Besides all the halachic problems, pets are an expense. I know a family who us struggling with money, yet they wanted pets. They purchase lots of pet food and in turn, they have less food to eat! Now they get money from matan biseser. It’s very sad.
I have 3 huge great danes and they cost me around $70 dollars a moth for feeding hardly a set back.
Also I wanted to say shabbos is not as big as problem with pets as people say Rav Wosner paskened to my father that since the animal wants to be petted it is not a problem of muktza, and walking them is only a problem of carrying if thers no eiruv and the lead is not taut.
walking is a problem of carrying when the leash IS taut
sorry my bad. forgot which one it is, I live in an eiruv area.
The one brilliant plan I heard was to give it to a random non-Jew for a while or something without saying anything and hope they give it to a doctor to do it on their own.
There was a non-Jewish vet where we used to live who would “buy” the dog before the surgery, then “sell” it back afterwards.
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