People Without a Rov

“Most women have never learned Mishna Berura. ”
“True, but Joseph’s comment was about the typical frum household, which usually isnt just women.”

There are a lot of single, divorced, and widowed women. If you also add in women who are married to men who do not have a Yeshiva background, that includes a lot of people. Furthermore, even if someone is married, her husband isn’t necessary around or available when the sheila arises. And when Joseph wrote “household”, I thought he was referring to all of the members of the household.

“The discussion is about “typical frum homes” I grant there are some who cannot read a Mishne Berura but It is fair to say the “Typical” product of a yeshiva system can.”

There are a lot of people who think they can understand things that they can’t. I have often noticed posters in the CR thinking that someone wrote something that they didn’t write. And this is in english. And it’s not that they realized that they didn’t understand what the person wrote – they were positive that the person had written something that they hadn’t. So what happens if the same person is convinced that he knows what the MB is saying, and in fact, he doesn’t?

(and just in case anyone thinks I am thinking about them specifically, I am thinking of several posters, and not one specific one)

“Furthermore, not all sheilahs (even the daily/weekly type) can be answered by looking it up in the Mishna Berurah. ”
“By far most can. the only ones you may have trouble with are technological questions (and of course non-OC questions) I concede there wil l still be a few shailas as I said. note I ever said no questions arise”

I gave many other reasons and examples. From my experience, sheilahs that can’t be answered in the MB come up at least once or twice a week.

“There are a lot of single, divorced, and widowed women. If you also add…”

sigh the question was about (and I quote ) “…an average frum family…”

“I have often noticed posters in the CR thinking that someone wrote something that they didn’t write”
Lol, yes we all have 😉

“So what happens if the same person is convinced that he knows what the MB is saying, and in fact, he doesn’t”
Im confused. then he DEFINITELY wont be asking his Rav a question. that is’ the guy you are arguing, asks questions?

“From my experience, sheilahs that can’t be answered in the MB come up at least once or twice a week.”
Ok I get it. Though that hasnt been my experience, (and your examples arent compelling) and I do not think that is the experience of the “average frum family” but admittedly, perhaps there is no such thing.
I ma curious about your thoughts on SLonimer’s point

LU:
“but rather, to sheilahs that should have been asked, whether or not they were”

Ubiquitin: “Though that isnt really the topic we were discussing.

Again the question was “How often does an average frum family consult with their Rov for a shaila or other advice””

LU: My original post was (sigh):

(Ubiquitin): “(If you want my answer for the “average frum family” (ie excluding newcomers and excluding those who may be exceptionally learned) Id say range between twice a month and 4 times a year (other than taharas hamishpacha) Admittedly I have no idea how I came up with this number)”

That seems to me like a very low estimate. Not necessarily in terms of how many sheilas people ask, but at least in terms of how many sheilas they actually have and would want to ask (but may not have anyone to ask).
I think that the range amongst people I know is more like once every week to at least once a day.
But most people I know don’t end up asking each time, either because they don’t have “A Rav” to ask all their sheilas to, or there is no one to ask because it’s Shabbos and they need an immediate answer, or it’s difficult/impossible to find someone to ask each time a sheilah arises and it’s the kind of thing that they can just avoid doing if they have no one to ask.”

You are allowed to write about something that is not the exact same as the original question as long as you make it clear that you are doing so.

(The problem is when you don’t make it clear that that is what you are doing, and/or you respond to other people’s posts who are referring to the original situation as though they are also referring to another situation, even after they made it quite clear that that was not what they were doing.)

Correction on last post: I meant “sheilahs that come up and could or should be asked.”

and if you’re going to be nit-picky and tell me that wasn’t my exact loshon, my exact loshon in my original post was: “Not necessarily in terms of how many sheilas people ask, but at least in terms of how many sheilas they actually have and would want to ask”
and the women in this case (who asked the sheilah to their husbands) would want to ask, and in fact, they did ask – they just chose the “wrong” person to ask, or maybe they had no choice.

but then again, some people think I’m male….. especially in the CR 🙂

LU
“You are allowed to write about something that is not the exact same as the original question as long as you make it clear that you are doing so.”

Of course. Though you have to keep the discussions straight otherwise yo u confuse yourself

Again the question was: “How often does an average frum family consult with their Rov for a shaila or other advice”

I gave an answer ranging 4-24.
you said “That seems to me like a very low estimate. …I think that the range amongst people I know is more like once every week to at least once a day.”

In an effort to give examples of the above you mentioned all of the following :
– Situations that are not the ” average frum family”
– Situations were people dont realize they SHOULD ask a question
– rare situations that dont come up regularly

Of course all of those are fine topics for discussion but none of them relate to (with the possible exception of rare questions), “How often does an average frum family consult with their Rov for a shaila or other advice” yet all were in responses addressed to me.

Now if you want to start a NEW discussion within this thread like
How often does a aingle/divorced/widowed woman consult with their Rov for a shaila or other advice
or
How often does an average frum family NOT consult with their Rov for a shaila or other advice when they should be doing so.

By all means discuss.
I just missed the part where you made it clear that you were no longer discussing the original question.
My apolagies for missing it.

“sigh the question was about (and I quote ) “…an average frum family…”

First of all, I find sighing to be rather arrogant and rude. There have been many times when I could have “sighed” at you, but chose not to. (the last post was only to make this point) .

Second of all, apparently I understood the term “average Frum family” differently than you did. I think that I had thought he meant the average of all Frum families. Meaning the average amount of questions asked by Frum families.

And honestly, it’s a bit ridiculous and rude to put so much emphasis on defining “average Frum family” a particular way. Maybe my idea of the average Frum family is different than yours is. Of the 7 households in my immediate family, 4 of them consist of only females.

I also am not sure that it made sense for you to marginalize “newcomers”. I am not sure if you meant people who became Frum less than a year or two ago, or if you were referring to all baalei teshuvas, but there are so many baalei teshuvas that I’m not sure if it makes sense to put them in a separate category, especially since bt’s often end up learning more halacha than ffb’s, and often have more questions precisely because they are more aware of the halachic issues that come up on a regular basis, as opposed to ffb’s who are more likely to take things for granted and just assume that since they’ve been doing something the same way for so many years, it must be okay, or to be reluctant to ask sheilas for the reasons that Benignuman and I gave above.

As I think was already pointed out, the whole idea of talking about an “average Frum family” makes no sense, which is probably the reason I didn’t interpret it the way you did.

“I would ask a posek who wasn’t my rav.”

I suppose it all depends on what someone wants from a Rav. If they want an answer machine that can provide answers not available via google, I can hear taking such an approach. Personally, our Rav is more than an answer machine, through our interactions with him he helps us grow in our avodas hashem.