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Its sad unfortuantely to see many bochurim who through the yeshiva system of four years of mesivta with barely any reading skills in a gemara, Yet they know the ktzos by heart. There is too much empahasis on the raide of the sugya yet bochurim are missing the basic tiech of the sugya , and some guys even leave Bais Medrash without knowing basic skills
I think that leining skills is not an essential life skill for everyone. But I think bachurim should learn basic halachos which they are not learning. Girls learn hilchos shabbos, brochos, etc. and many bachurim don’t know the basics!
Have you found a shiur yet?
I think that leining skills is not an essential life skill for everyone.
WHAT?!
The chutzpah. Who do these kids think they are coming to learn without any leining skills? Better they should go work in kalba savua’s fields.
Which Parsha?
What WHAT?
I don’t think a single poster on this thread actually responded to what any other poster was saying. That includes me.
I responded to the title which I thought was the op’s issue. Didn’t realize he /she mean actual READING skills. Thought they meant leining cause that was the thread title
Did OP mean LEINING or LEARNING?
from the OP
“with barely any reading skills in a gemara”
Zahavasdad, the Yiddish word “leining” simply means reading. We often use it to refer to reading from the Torah (which takes special skill, because there are no nekudos and trup – vowelization or cantillation symbols), but can refer to the ability to read gemara. The OP meant the latter, which also takes special skill, because there is no punctuation and there are no vowels, because Aramaic is usually less familiar, and one needs to be accustomed to the Talmud’s style.
In my parelence, you Lein the Torah and you learn Gemorah
Making a leining on gemorah is not just a nice thing to know. It is absolutely basic essential for any yeshiva bochur older than 16. Anybody who thinks differently just has no idea of what a yeshiva learning process is all about.
Why can’t you just hire some idiot to sit next to you and make the leining and then you’ll analyze the gemara?
Same as you would if you wanted to analyze a document in chinese?
Someone who is learning gemara should be able to read it!
Someone who is learning gemara should be able to read it!
What? That makes no sense. Can you read computer code? Do you use computers anyway?
What does my using computers or not have to do with someone who goes through yeshiva learning Gemara and doesnt know how to read it? Or are you just pulling everyone’s legs?
ivory:
His point was that just as people can use computers despite not understanding the text (code) that lies under the surface, so can they learn Gemara despite not understanding the actual text itself, so they don’t need to be able to read it.
If that didn’t make any sense, it’s because
he was indeed leg-pulling, as usual.
His point made sense, but the analogy only works partially. Computers are made to be used by people who don’t know the underlying code, but the Gemara wasn’t made to be learned by people who can’t read.
Sure, there’s what to gain from gemara without reading it, but it’s still a major handicap.
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