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Interesting conversation. I’d like to commend you guys today.
More often than not, the comments are just people screaming immature snarky remarks back and forth,
but this topics postings by most everybody are mentchlach and mature.
THANKS! EVERYBODY! I’m enjoying the back and forth! keep it going! 🙂Joseph:
I can confirm that I have never seen a short-jacket, yeshivish father walking alongside a kid with a bekishe. I was talking about young kids as in ages 6-9 roughly.I don’t assume that these kids are going to keep the peyes forever, especially when their fathers don’t really hold of it b’shittah. I interpret this as a kind of kids-only minhag, which is weird. Harmless, but just a wee bit bizarre.
In basic kabalah: Payos of rosh are connected to gevurah while the beard is connected to chessed. The two should be kept separate most times, hence the peyos ha’rosh are kept behind ears or up under the yarmulka, so that they do not mix with beard.
@Neville Chaim Berlin – In communities where I have lived – both in town and out of town – I have seen, quite often, parents LEAVING their sons’ peyos after their upsherin (for example) and the son, then, leaving them “for life”. Sometimes the fathers eventually themselves add peyos, sometimes not. On rare occasions I have seen High School bochrim take them off (more out of peer pressure, I suspect). But usually they stay.
There is possibly a big difference between this scenario and one where the boy decides on his own to grow his peyos. Then, since it was not part of his chinuch (meaning his parents didn’t give them to him, or at least encourage it or praise the change), they are more likely to come off.
“There is possibly a big difference between this scenario and one where the boy decides on his own to grow his peyos. Then, since it was not part of his chinuch (meaning his parents didn’t give them to him, or at least encourage it or praise the change), they are more likely to come off.”
I’m not sure I would agree with that assessment. I think, in the case we’re talking about, the boy will never interpret them a really being meakev since his father didn’t have them. Whereas, someone who becomes more frum and decides to grow them out will see it as being halachically based rather than a seemingly random shtick they were raised with.
I’m not denouncing the trend at all. I’m just agreeing with the posters who have asserted that it’s really just a trend, not a shift is halachic shittah.
Mr. Rebbetzin: The beard is in front of the face while they peyos are on the sides of the face. Even with the peyos reaching your shoulders, they will not mix.
Mrs Joseph, if you check with males that have facial hair, they will explain to you that long peyos ha’rosh, if left hanging down onto the face, mingle with long peyos ha’ponim. Kabbalistic sources stae that they should not mix, like shatnez or milk with meat.
Joseph, have you never had a beard nor seen someone with a beard? The beard is on the cheeks as well. My peyos are not terribly long but if I take them down they will fall over the upper area of my beard.
@Joseph – According to the Gemora, the Rishonim, and Achronim, the corners/edges of the head end where two of the corners/edges of the beard begin (i.e. where the skull and upper jaw meet the lower jaw know as the lechi ha’elyon and lechi ha’tachton respectively. The Kaf HaChaim quotes a Zohar that the peyos should be moved away from the ear during tefilos. I heard that Rav Chaim said this is not found in our Zohar.
The hair on head is called sayor, same letters as word “shiyur” (measure) which is a limitation, known as gevurah. Likewise, it has the same letters as “se’or” yeast, which is known to be associated with Din (judgement). (It is also the same letters as “sha’ar” (gate) but that is another discussion, and also the word se’ora – barley, as in sefirat haOmer when the 24,000 students of R’ Akiva died).
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