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In our Shul in Staten Island it is forbidden to daven without a mask and social distancing is required. According to the Woodward tapes, Trump could have saved thousands by being honest early in February about the coronavirus and not down playing it for his fear of panic.
Oh please! This is ridiculous. I am so sick and tired of this insane trump blaming as if you all think he runs the world! For goodness sake you don’t listen to a word trump says now and you wouldn’t have listened to a word he said in february!!! Can we just cut it iut already and stop thinking everything you don’t like in your life is trumps fault?!
Im definitely losing it….
The Shuls don’t want to make a distinction, either everyone wears a mask or no one.
“According to the Woodward tapes, Trump could have saved thousands by being honest early in February about the coronavirus and not down playing it for his fear of panic.”
Exactly what would Trump, or anyone else need to do to save lives?
Be honest and tell the truth by not down playing its effect and don’t worry about panic as Kennedy at Missiles of October. Not create campaign get togethers without precautions. Not to open the economy and schools too early and not say it will go away by itself. Put more emphasis on testing to know whom to separate. Emphasize the wearing of masks by wearing it yourself as an example. How is it that we are worse off than any other country being 4% of the world’s population and 20+% of the deaths?
Nursing homes
Oh, you forgot to mention protests thatt all took place DURING the pandemic and reversed everything as opposed to opening schools in SEPTEMBER
Reb Eliezer,
“Be honest and tell the truth”
a. Trump did not have access to information that was not available to regular citizens.
b. The economy stuff was all done on a state or local level.As of now, there is no action(s) that have been proven to be effective.
2scents, did you listen to the Woodward tapes? Trump said one thing on tape and another in public.
He recognized the deadliness on the tape but down played it in public showing that he knew all the dangers on February 7th but he did not do anything about it then.All relevant info has been available to any regular citizen since February. Many actions have proven to be effective: compare the death rate in the US with other countries. Trump failed and he should resign, and certainly not seek reelection. Compare with Bush.
@RebElazar I think I know which shul and yea it makes sense. But not other shuls.
daniela,
“Trump failed and he should resign, and certainly not seek reelection. Compare with Bush.”
Why so?
Did he take action despite the heat from the democrats?
What actions should he have taken that would have made any difference?
Furthermore, if all the information was readily available for everyone why didn’t anyone speak up about the supposed actions that would have been effective?
Almost all the decisions were done on a state and local level, but I guess blaming the President is better for politics.
@Rebelazar In Staten Island their very pro Trump. Why are you diffrent?
“2scents, did you listen to the Woodward tapes?”
no.“Trump said one thing on tape and another in public.”
So what?“He recognized the deadliness on the tape but down played it in public showing that he knew all the dangers on February 7th but he did not do anything about it then.”
Are you saying that Trump is smarter than the average person? We all had access to the information that Trump had, yet because Trump felt that it will be worse than we all believed, he should have said so? What difference would that have made?
Major politicians (across both parties) have publicly downplayed the virus before it became bad.@2cents
what action did he take? Block flights from China? and not from EU? And downplay this “flu” suggesting it’s nothing too dangerous and anyway it would disappear soon?
I have spoken up, for free, to anyone I’ve met in person, Jewish or not, and occasionally on the internet. Some people do not want to listen. There is nothing anyone can do about it.
The Chinese suggested in February, and Westerner researchers confirmed in March, that the disease is aerosol-transmitted. WHO, which is as fast as a plastic fossile dinosaur model still packed for shipment, that is to say, in the event there were United Nations of Dinosaurs bickering constantly and threatening to nuke each others, WHO has been saying for months that TBC precautions are a good guideline. Reinfection was recently confirmed, but long since assumed as possible. Long-term consequences are all too obvious.
There are in this very thread people who believe that having caught and survived the virus is a plus. It isn’t so for other similar diseases, which did not reach Western countries and thus were not profitable to research. Perhaps they are correct and time will show there is immunity. However I am not betting my life and my family’s on that.
May be it’s sheer luck, but I don’t know anyone who got infected among people who always followed some annoying but easy precautions.Kollelman -“What shaychus does masks have to slowing the spread? Please see what I wrote. The masks aren’t helping unless sick, contagious people are walking around and wearing high quality masks.”
No. You don’t even understand what the Gov. said with regards to Masks. This is for e/o, Not just Med Prof.
The purpose of Non-95 masks or Scarfs or something like that – is to protect others from getting Covid.
Unless e/o would be tested everyday, you couldn’t possibly know whether you have Covid19.
And if you have it – you can spread it, even if you don’t have any Symptoms!
Do you want to be a Rotzaich?!?
Because some people, if they get Covid19, will Die from it.Re Reb Eliezer’s first comment: You omitted the last sentence: But Trump is an idiot.
huju -“You omitted the last sentence: But Trump is an idiot.”
I’d rather an idiot for Pres than Biden.
Biden is a typical victim of Alzheimer’s, he is presenting with Early Onset of this disease.
Oh well, Momella will be in charge if Biden wins. Maybe she’ll convert like Ivanka?!?As the head of the trump cult, trump should have realized that when he downplays the virus, millions of mini-trumps make their brains conform to his and start parroting whatever he said, which we now know he didn’t even believe himself. Evidence of parroting is all over this thread and elsewhere on YWN. “It’s less than the flu.“ “Masks aren’t important; wear one if you want, but I don’t see why I should.” “Liberate Michigan” and other states from lockdowns. “Health officials change their minds all the time, they don’t know anything themselves.” “Hydroxy is the wonder drug, they won’t approve it because they’re against trump.” So what should trump have done differently? For starters, how about not lie to the people who take him seriously.
#Trump2020
se2015 -“Hydroxy is the wonder drug, they won’t approve it because they’re against trump.”
That’s definitely True!
Unless you have a logical reason – why this country hasn’t Pushed HCQ + Zinc as an option for Covid19?!? Yes, I know, it has to be given within the first few days.Would you advise your patients to get exposed to malaria given that HCQ is highly effective against it? I hope NOT!!! It has, like every medication, side effects (including psychotic episodes) and possible adverse events. I don’t know if I will take HCQ if I get sick with the virus (I’ll follow what the doctors say) but very definitely I am trying not to get sick.
Non-medical KN95 cut down exposure drastically, are affordable and widely available, and you can wear a surgical mask or face shield on top of them. Why aren’t they being pushed as an option? Perhaps because they are Made in China? Or perhaps because they contradict the President’s narrative and highlight his demented disruption of supply-chains at a highly critical time? I don’t care. Trump won’t help me when I won’t be able to provide for my family. Besides, according to the CNN audio, he seems to have known all along that the virus is transmitted via aerosol. And he lied to his subjects…. I mean, citizens. You can’t be too surprised that I am not taking his statements and his supporters’ words at face value.“For starters, how about not lie to the people who take him seriously??”
Well, for starters, there are at least SOME who take him “seriously”, including some of those commenting on this thread” who are intelligent and thus he has to fabricate “alternative facts” do keep them in line. I would agree that the majority of Trumpkopfs probably would accept he “truth” along with his assertion that we should discard all of our prior understandings of reality. However, lying to his sheeplach and insisting that any disagreement is “fake news” or in some cases “treason” makes it a lot easier than having to actually work on explaining why the true facts aren’t as they seem. Ask you 10 yo son why its easier to say the dog or tata “ate my homework” rather than explaining why the teacher’s assignment was not well thought out and it would have been a poor use of histime to write the essay rather than playing fortnight or learning a blat gemorah online with his chavrusah.health, you agree that sometimes the risk outweighs the benefit, so how do you when to give it?
Reb Eliezer: proud, look up in Biur Halacha O’CH 554 about the Cholara epidemic to stay inside but when need to go out, wear a mask.
No, he does not say that. Please do not repeat things that you saw quoted somewhere but did not bother looking up yourself. If you had looked it up you would have seen that the person who quoted it to you was lying or incompetent.
The Biur Halacha says that if someone insists on fasting during a cholera epidemic, then he should protect himself by staying home to avoid breathing the bad air that was then falsely thought to cause the disease. If he must go out, he should hang some camphor and mint leaves over his nose, in the hope that the strong smell will protect him from the bad air. NOTHING about masks. Anyone who tells you he mentions a mask is not telling you the truth.
Of course nowadays we know that cholera has nothing to do with bad air, and all the precautions people thought they were taking were useless. They should have been doing something very different: boiling and/or chlorinating their water, and washing their hands frequently (in clean water!) Which goes to show that the so-called “experts” don’t necessarily know what they’re talking about. And that applies now just as it did then.
The halacha is that if you have a medical question (like whether to be mechalel Shabbos for a choleh, or whether a baby boy is too yellow for milah) then you ask a doctor.
Mrs Plony, NOBODY asks a doctor whether a baby is too yellow for milah. The UNIVERSALLY accepted halacha is that we do NOT ask doctors. If we were to ask the doctors there would be no such thing as a delayed bris for yellowness, and the whole halacha about it would have been long forgotten. We ask only a mohel who has received the tradition from the mohel who trained him, and we disregard the unanimous advice of all doctors that postnatal jaundice is no reason to delay circumcision.
CTLawyer,
“Dina Malchusa Dina………………….”
So was the decree for the Jews not to learn Torah and to attend Achashverushes party.
Some look at the mask laws as decrees, when the government starts deciding who can and who cannot be open, what congregations are ok and what should be banned without scientific reasoning this seems more like a decree. When the government decides what is essential and is selective when creating rules, this is not ok.
The Woodward “revelation” is nonsense. It’s no different from what he said publicly at a press conference on March 30, that he knows how big a panic he could create if he were to play the story up, so he’s being careful not to do that, like a responsible person, not like an irresponsible reporter such as Jim Acosta. Fauci (you still worship him, don’t you?) has completely repudiated any suggestion that Trump’s public message ever diverged from the information he was given. Woodward is simply trying to influence the election; he’s functioning as an integral part of the Democrat campaign and should be given no more credibility than any other Democrat spokesman.
@gadolhadorah – I object to calling cult members “sheeplach”. It makes them sound cute.
@health: “That’s definitely True! Unless you have a logical reason…”No one other than trump and his cult says it’s a wonder drug. Thank you for demonstrating my point.
Hmmm… I know that we don’t pasken from a story, but I recall a chapter in A House Full of Chessed where Rebbetzin Machlis kept bringing her baby to have his bilirubin tested so he could have his circumcision on the eighth day, and miraculously his levels fell to an acceptable number just in time.
But my point is: If your doctor tells you to do something then you listen to your doctor. Have any of the people who refuse to wear masks asked their doctors for input?
se2015 -“No one other than trump and his cult says it’s a wonder drug.”
So you DemonCrats resort to lying to put down Trump supporters! I, for one, never called it a Wonder Drug.
But it works.
The main reason people are against it, because they Suffer from TDS!Cholera can be airborne.
RE -“health, you agree that sometimes the risk outweighs the benefit, so how do you when to give it?”
If the pt. is elderly or if they have other medical issues, eg. Obesity, HTN, etc.
se2015 -“As the head of the trump cult, trump should have realized that when he downplays the virus, millions of mini-trumps make their brains conform to his and start parroting whatever he said,”
The biggest Joke is – I don’t hang on to every word he says.
The main ones who do that are Anti- Trumpers. They are looking to find anything wrong that he says. Most Pro-Trumpers have better things to do.
We are Not like the DemonCrat sheep, we actually think for ourselves!Mrs Plony,
“Have any of the people who refuse to wear masks asked their doctors for input?”
Doctors have a doctorate degree in medicine, not in mask-wearing. There are no COVID experts.
Health – actually you did. I said that cult members parrot trump by saying “Hydroxy is the wonder drug,” to which you responded “That’s definitely True!”
If you meant to say my statement was true, i.e. that hcq a cultish obsession, not that hcq is the wonder drug, then I would have apologized, except that your later response clarified your membership in the trump cult.
Health – spot on!! I have never heard a pro trumper say that they love trump as a person, look up to him, think everything he says is worth hearing, loves the tweets… all that trump cult garbage comes from GH, Jackk, Se, ctl , reb e etc. Who, by the way, have trump on their minds 24/7. And have no qualms lying about our commitment to his presidency even to our faces whilevwe refute it.
Mrs. Plony – outside of the trolls here, i have never met anyone against masks. I know many who don’t wear them when they don’t need to, don’t find the supporting evidence convincing and have had MANY health professionals tell us it is not doing anything for the general publc and not needed if you aren’t at risk. Even having said that, they/we wear them when needed. I think they are trolling, or just very self centered.
Your post is not worth 2scents. Doctors have exoerience in infectious diseases as this is not the first time happening see Biur Halacha O’CH 554 about the cholara epidemic to wear a mask going outside.
Thanks for the support Reb Eliezer (although you could have skipped the first line and still made the same point).
Syag, I’ve only heard the opposite from health professionals: we should all wear masks; if only people who are at risk mask up then it’s not as helpful.
Mrs plony – (nice to see you back, by the way)
I don’t doubt you have been told thst, i am letting you know that i have been actively pursuing in person info from health care people and have been hearing very differently. But like i said, anti masks isn’t a mature optionThe reason I included the first line because it is dangerous and violates the mitzva of caring for your fellow man. It is one thing to endanger yourself but another thing to endanger others when you might infect other even being asymptomatic.
“(although you could have skipped the first line and still made the same point).“
Nope, then he would actually need to use substance as an argument when he prefers otherwise.
Are you gonna listen to this also? Or just what’s good for you ?2cents, please be nice. Reb Eliezer’s argument did have substance. Bonus: He agreed with me 🙂
Rav Chaim agrees to yeshivas opening provided they follow the proper separation in capsules rules and masks.
To decide whether one can eat on Yom Kippur we don’t ask a Rav but the doctor and if he feels he needs to eat, he can override even 100 doctors. see SA O’CH 618,1
se2015 -“Hydroxy is the wonder drug, they won’t approve it because they’re against trump.”
Me -“That’s definitely True!”“Health – actually you did. I said that cult members parrot trump by saying “Hydroxy is the wonder drug,” to which you responded “That’s definitely True!”
“If you meant to say my statement was true, i.e. that hcq a cultish obsession, not that hcq is the wonder drug, then I would have apologized, except that your later response clarified your membership in the trump cult.”I explained what I meant Later on:
se2015 -“No one other than trump and his cult says it’s a wonder drug.”
“So you DemonCrats resort to lying to put down Trump supporters! I, for one, never called it a Wonder Drug.
But it works.
The main reason people are against it, because they Suffer from TDS!”You called it a Wonder Drug – When I said this (First Paragraph) I was talking about whether it works.
I couldn’t separate your words.
You couldn’t just say the Trump people say it works. You had to call it a Wonder Drug!
Your TDS is REALLY Bad – Get Help.I’m not here to argue about hydroxychloroquin. I commented that trump supporters have blind belief in positions he takes (hence obsession with hcq despite global medical consensus that it is ineffective or at least that potentials risks outweigh potential benefits), so when he minimizes the virus it has real world impacts. Someone way up the thread asked what should trump have done. I said he should at least stop lying to his supporters. You don’t calm a nation in crisis by denying the severity of the crisis. That leads to reckless behavior, especially by people who are inclined to believe him. You tell it as it is while reassuring and demonstrating that you are doing everything in your power. Trump chose the route he knows best – he saw it as a PR issue, not a time for leadership. The best spin he could put on it was that he was being a cheerleader. As inadequate as that would have been, it doesn’t even square with the way he unofficially undermined his own health officials and the efforts by governors to get the pandemic under control.
As to your recital of what you said when, you seem to acknowledge that you did in fact agree with my sarcastic portrayal of hcq conspiracy theorists, then called me a liar while simultaneously walking back half of what you said. That doesn’t make me a liar. At most, it means I’m not a mind reader.
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