Parnassa from Hashem?

We are required to do hishtadlut. Chazal say that a man is obligated to teach his son a trade or profession and if he fails to do so he teaches him to rob and steal (Kiddushin 29a). In general, when something is given one must go out and get it. For example, a farmer must leave a corner of his field for the poor but they must come and collect what they need.

From Nidah 70b, Soncino translation and notes:

What must a man do that he may become rich? He replied: Let him engage much in business34 and deal honestly. Did not many, they said to him, do so but it was of no avail to them? — Rather, let him pray for mercy from Him to whom are the riches, for it is said, Mine is the silver, and Mine the gold.35 What then36 does he 37teach us?38 — That one without the other39 does not suffice.

(34) ‘Engage . . . business’ is deleted by Elijah Wilna.
(35) Hag. II, 8.
(36) Seeing that one has in any case to pray for mercy.
(37) Samuel who stated, ‘Let him engage much’ etc.
(38) Cf. prev. n. but five mut. mut.
(39) Honest dealing without prayer and vice versa.

It is known the famous Rambam in Hilchas Talmud Torah 3:10 כל המשים על עצמו about sitting and learning and relying on support.

BisBoy, the problem is that no one knows what is “extra” for him.

BisBoy,

It seems to me that you’re asking the age-old question of where is a line between our effort and Emunah.

my answer to that is that each person is on their own level, and each person has his own dividing line. To me a good test to measure Emunah is to look at how much Yirah a person has. if a person claims to have faith that Hashem will help but has no fear, that is inconsistent. After all, it is the same Hand of Hashem that feeds you as that smacks you.

We need to look around and see how Hashem is involved in our lives and make a determination. Joseph was punished for petitioning the wine steward because he should have had faith in Hashem. but how was he supposed to know where his line was? The answer to that is simple. He was already thrown in a pit before. He was miraculously saved from the pit of snakes and scorpions before, so now he should know the Hashem is with him and saving him. It seems to me, based on the example of Joseph, the each of us should know our own level. But, it’s not always clear, just like it was not perfectly clear to Joseph.

Your business is to be mishtadel by working as much as you can,even if it means taking on a second job because your responsibility is to your family. What hashem does is not your business.if he feels you need a third job then you will find out sooner or later. If you win a lottery you will also find out. But your hishtadlus is to work as hard as you canwithout any cheshbonos of ” why work extra if hashem decided how much you should make. Work the most you can. Learn the most you can and do chassadim the most you can and hashem will do what has to be done both for the good and not so good.

MDG,
1. No one today is on Yosef’s level.
2. Rashi says that the wine steward was known as an ingrate who never helped anybody.
3. A person has an obligation towards his employer to work as hard as he can. Even if he is self-employed he should still give his all. Thus, Yaakov asked the shepherds why they were sitting around doing nothing whether they were working for someone else or themselves,

Avi K,

1. I just meant that each of us needs to evaluate our own madreiga.
2. Regardless of his bad character, he still could be a channel through which Hashem send whelp
3. Good point. I did not mean to say otherwise, but my words may imply that. Thanks for your constructive criticism.

Not everyone who works hard makes a lot of money

July 27, 2018
1Participant
Not everyone who works hard makes a lot of money.
——————————————–
And not everyone who davens for a shidduch and parnosso and for health get them. Do u ask how much should i daven for health and a shidduch? Or are you mishtadel and go on dates? Or do u just sit back and say i went out enough on dated , now im waiting for hashem to come along. You daven and learn and work because thats what you are meant to to do. Hashem does his part but expect hin to do anything if you are sitting back and expecting for everything to fall; in place because you feel u did enough davening , dating or working.

from jw:
The value of work in the eyes of Chazal
In certain circles today, the word work is a 4 letter word. However, if we look at Chazal we see that Chazal actually believed the opposite, that in fact Chazal thought work was very important and valuable.

In last weeks Parsha (יתרו), we have the ten commandments with one of them being the commandment to observe Shabbos. However, before commanding us to keep Shabbos the Torah states “ששת ימים תעבוד ועשית כל מלאכתיך”. On this pasuk there are many derashos of Chazal on the positive value of work. The תורה שלימה at the end of יתרו has 2 essays on this point and all of the sources below are taken from there.
Work as a Mitzva
There are a number of sources in Chazal that state that not only is work a positive value, but it is a mitzvah.
1. Source: במכילתא דרשב״י
ששת ימים תעבד רבי אומר הרי זו גזרה אחרת שכשם שנצטוו ישראל על מצות עשה של שבת כך נצטוו על מלאכה
Six days you should work, Rebbi says this is another gezera that just like the Jewish people were commanded as a positive commandment to keep Shabbos, so too they were commanded to work [on the other 6 days].
2. Source: ובאבות דר״נ נו״ב פכ״א
רבי אליעזר אומר גדולה היא מלאכה שכשם שנצטוו ישראל על השבת כך נצטוו על המלאכה שנאמר ששת ימים תעבוד ועשית כל מלאכתך
Rabbi Eliezer said work is a very good thing because just like the Jewish people were commanded to keep Shabbos, so too they were commanded to work as the pasuk says 6 days you should work

R’ Kasher explains the source for saying that work is a mitzvah as follows:

ונראה שיסוד של הדרשות הנ״ל הוא משום שהתורה הזכירה שמנה פעמים במצות שמירת שבת עשיית מלאכה בששת ימים וצריך להבין מה רצתה התורה לומר בזו- הרי בעיקר באה להזהירנו על שמירת שבת, ולמה הדגישה בכל פעם עשיית המלאכה בששת ימים. מזה למדו רבי ור״א שהתורה צוותה בפסוקים אלה על המלאכה בששת הימים ואין זה רשות גרידא. אלא כשאדם הולך בטל ואינו עושה כלום מבטל מצות התורה של ששת ימים תעבד

It seems that the reason behind these derashos is that the Torah mentions 8 times when discussing the mitzvah of Shabbos doing work on the other six days. We have to understand what is the Torah telling us? The main point the Torah is coming to tell us is to warn us to keep Shabbos and therefore why does the Torah emphasise every time the idea of doing work on the other 6 days. From this Rebbi and R’ Eliezer learned that the Torah is commanding us to work on these 6 days and it is not optional, rather if a person sits and does nothing he is not fulfilling the mitzvah of working 6 days.
Work as a positive value
R’ Kasher then brings a whole set of statements of Chazal about the positive value of work. What is fascinating is that he only quotes the more obscure ones, the others he doesn’t quote because as he says “כי ידועים הם”, everyone know them.
Sources: ממכילתא דרשב׳׳י שם מאבות דר׳ נתן נו״ב, ממשנת דבי אליעזר

Edited for length – please break up extra long posts. Thanks! -33

Since someone mentioned how in some circles, Work is a 4-letter word, let me quote from a recent edition of Rav Miller’s Q&A from the Toras Avigdor foundation. It is one of my favorite responsas:

Q: The Rav has spoken to us often about common sense being an important part of how we approach certain questions. Wouldn’t common sense tell us that one has to work in order to make a living? So is sitting in kollel common sense?

A: You have to know that you have touched on a very important subject. If a person has funds or his wife is an idealist and she prefers to work so that her husband can sit and learn, then as long as she prefers that, it will be a mitzvah to continue to learn in the kollel. But if she does not want or is not able to work, then he is michuyav, he is obligated, to support his wife. He made a kinyan when he got married. He committed himself. “Ana eflach.” I am going to work. “Ana eizan.” I am going to support my wife. He’s michuyav to go to work.
It’s impossible for a decent man who doesn’t have any income to continue learning when he doesn’t have any way to support his family. Certainly he’s a choiteh! Certainly he’s a sinner; no question about it. And those people who dodge their responsibility and they therefore live in poverty and they’re suffering all kinds of troubles – just because they’re not willing to go out and support their families – those people are “asidin li’tein es ha’din.” No question about it. To be in kollel when it’s possible to be in kollel is a beautiful ideal. But when it’s not possible, it becomes a cheit, a sin.
TAPE # E-189 (June 1999)

There is a Midrash יכול יהי’ יושב בטל ת”ל בכל מעשך אשר תעשה I would think he should sit idly by and rely on Hashem, it says all your work that you “do’. We see that to be blessed we have to do some work.

The elephant in the room in this conversation is the fact that in general, people whose Hishtadlus lies in certain fields generally make more money.

A doctor, for example, doesn’t necessarily work harder or more hours than a trucker, but the average income for doctors is significantly higher than it is for truckers.

The question, then, is this:

How do we reconcile this reality with the well known positions of the Torah referred to above?

This is a very complex issue, and much time, thought and research must be devoted to it in order to have, if not a comprehensive explanation, at least a coherent approach.

Two points that I think are very important to contemplate are:

1. Not all people are equally governed by Hashgacha Pratis. To some degree, all people are governed by Teva. [That is to say, the Ratzon Hashem is that the general system He created, to which we refer as Teva, should govern those who do not merit or who, by dint of their own shortcomings, would not benefit from His direct governance.] This naturally results in generalities such as doctors earning more money.

2. Depending on the specific nature of a person’s mission in this world, the way he exercises his Bechira could entail Hashem granting him more money. For example, person whose purpose in life is to be Marbitz Torah, but who chooses to become a lawyer, may be very successful so that he is able to fulfill his purpose by supporting institutions which are Marbitz Torah (Rav Dessler’s example, not mine).

Avi K, that’s a red herring.

The key word is “average”.

I don’t think there can be any question which of those professions has a higher average net income, after taxes and all job-related expenses, outliers notwithstanding.