Palestinian State

You should work for the NY Times. What happened to Syria, Lebanon, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, and Turkey?

simcha613

r ovadia paskenedd they should, if it would stop the attacks, however you never know if theyre serious or not

I agree that they should have their own state. But I know there are security concerns about Israel not being able to control some strategic areas the details of which are beyond me. I am loathe to assume that this is something that can be done easily.

I do believe, however, that once the Palestinians have their own state it is likely that they will eventually use it to launch a war against Israel, requiring Israel to reinvade and restarting the whole conflict again.

A two-state solution would not solve anything since they are not interested in having one. They just don’t want Israel to exist at all.

I am not opposed to giving them a state. Just far away from Eretz Yisrael. Another possibility is an international fund to pay them to emigrate to countries that need moneyed immigrants.

notasheep has a good point, the palestinians dont want a half of isreal, they want “from the river to the sea, paletine will be free”

Note:

I’m a frum Jew, and no liberal. But please read every Wikipedia page you can find on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and then ask yourself if “supporting Israel” actually means agreeing with whatever they have done or will do, combined with not acknowledging as valid any claims made by the other side.

No, I don’t have a solution, and I’m just going to leave things to Hashem. It’s not like I could make a difference in the matter anyway…

Akuperma

an internationally recognized Palestinian state would be claim the whole of the former British mandate, and thereby setting up the possibility of the United Nations calling for an international peacekeepking force to remove the zionists from Eretz Yisrael, etc.

I don’t think so. It is not possible that millions of Israelis would end up in the same boat as the Arabs did when Israel took the West Bank from Jordan.

Facts on the ground – i.e. the presence of the Jews/Israelis – must be dealt with, and no one could argue that they should live under Palestinian rule.

Unless it is accompanied by the Palestinians giving claims on Israel

Ah, solution. So what’s the issue? You don’t trust that Israel would demand that?

benignuman:

I do believe, however, that once the Palestinians have their own state it is likely that they will eventually use it to launch a war against Israel, requiring Israel to reinvade and restarting the whole conflict again.

Were that to happen, though, they’d be giving up on any image of being peace-seekers, and no one could object to Israel ever again unless they committed actual war crimes.

notasheep:

A two-state solution would not solve anything since they are not interested in having one. They just don't want Israel to exist at all.

If only there was some way to prove that this is why the peace negotiations never work out… Also, you might be conflating the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

with the Israeli-Arab conflict.

The Goq™:

We gave them autonomy in Gaza and that worked out well right?

More so than in the West Bank or wherever the Palestinian Authority is?

Autonomy is not statehood.

Avi K:

I am not opposed to giving them a state. Just far away from Eretz Yisrael. Another possibility is an international fund to pay them to emigrate to countries that need moneyed immigrants.

Why should they agree to leave? And where are you going to get the land from?

Or, where will the money come from, and what does “moneyed immigrants” mean?

scared driver delight:

Before Israel entered the West Bank in 1967, there was no state or government there. Is it worse for the Arabs now than from when there was no state altogether?

This is ignorance and simply not true.

Read Wikipedia’s “Jordanian occupation of the West Bank” article.

We already have a two state solution – Israel and Jordan.

Simcha: There are many problems with a two-state solution — security (rockets on Jerusalem are practically guaranteed if there is a state in the West Bank), fairness (they plan to forbid any Jews from living in their state), etc. — and there is much to be said for a one-state solution. See Caroline Glick’s recent book on the latter, for example.

randomex “But please read every Wikipedia page you can find on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict”

nobody has that much time 😉

The so-called Palestinian aren’t a real independent people and never were. They assumed that name as a tactic after 1948. Only Jews were called Palestinians prior to that.

History shows, as the Torah says, that the Land will remain fallow until the Jews are about to return. Mark Twain and others wrote of the Land being desolate and barren, almost without people in the late 1800’s. Arabs were nomads, who flocked to the area for jobs after Jews started returning. There were very few of them and some Jews prior to that, but not many. Then at a certain point, Arabs being the “Pereh Adom” that the Torah says they are, started attacking and killing Jews. 1929 Chevron being just one example.

What was called Palestine, was designated for the Jews in the Balfour Declaration. The British took away 80% of that territory and gave it to Jordan as the Palestinian Arab State. That was 80% of the Land that was supposed to be ours. That wasn’t good enough so they attacked. Jordan seized the West Bank from Israel in 1948. The so-called Palestinan Arabs never claimed the land as theirs when Jordan controlled it. The first claim came after the 6 day war. BTW, the PLO was created in 1964 to try to destroy Israel while the Arabs had control of the West Bank.

All this shows is that the whole claim is a fake as a step to try to destroy us. Parshas Haazeinu says, that Hashem warns us that if we don’t follw his ways, he will punish us with a “NON PEOPLE, A VILE PEOPLE.” It doesn’t take much to figure out who those people are. They are vile and a non-nation. They have no distinct language or culture. They are largely a non productive people with no real accomplishment. That doesn’t mean that individuals can’t be decent or productive, but as a whole, they are not.

Why write this? Because people don’t always know history and look at things from a simplified current situation only.

Bottom line, they want to destroy us. That means all Jews, in Israel and in the rest of the world. That is their theology. Are we foolish enough to help them do it? Supporting creating a State within us play right into those hands. Don’t be suicidal.

Health, while I have a copy, I never fully read it. I started to read it, but it wasn’t anything I didn’t already know. It’s just factual history that too many younger people don’t know. People just get caught up in the big lie nonsense and take it as fact, with no real understanding.

BTW, for people that don’t know, Joan Peters, the author of “From Time Immemorial” is/was an intellectually honest historian who worked for the Carter Administration. She admits that she was pro-Arab and started writing the book to prove the Arabs right. The further she dug, her opinion changed 180 degrees.

A new Palestine would be a more formidable military foe than Egypt, Jordan and Syria were in the past?

Actually, it could be. Firstly, it would have an extensive border with Israel, leading to a high probability of extensive infiltration. It would be able to constantly infiltrate Israel, especially through built-up areas such as Yerusholayim.

Israel’s enemies of yore would launch clear, all out war, on recognized boundaries. They were also not as motivated as the Palestinians would be. This would lead to a clear military response, which as a developed, advanced and heavily aided military (certainly in the past), Israel stood a good chance and repeatedly, besityata di’shmaya, won.

But a future Palestinian State would have two fronts, and would be incredibly well placed to further their current ramshackle terror campaign into a much larger, much better funded ISIS style terror campaign. This would not constitute an existential threat against Israel, rather just make life unbearable for it’s inhabitants. With a large sympathetic Arab population in Israel, they would be able to launch mass casualty guerrilla raids, widespread rocket fire, and dig tunnels literally all over Israel, turning Israel into something nearer to Vietnam.

And this campaign would, as we have seen in Gaza, be virtually impossible to effectively combat. As a state, Palestine would form allies with surrounding Arab nations, which would be far friendlier neighbours than Egypt has been to Gaza. This would mean any overt war could turn into a simultaneous fight from both within and without, the like of which Israel has never faced before.

I agree it’s a bit of a doomsday scenario, and i’m sure the defensive measures could stop avert many of these dangers, but the facts of the matter are clear. Israel can’t, and hopefully won’t, even begin to consider handing a mortal enemy the launching pad, both literally and figuratively, to attack it.

Randomex,

I think you are being naive as to how the world would react to Israel’s reinvasion of the West Bank. While the war might be intially viewed as justified, the subsequent occupation will bring us back to the current status quo. Some new group will arise within the West Bank claiming to represent the Palestinian people as a partner for peace and renewed independence.

There already is a Palestinian states. Sorry, two Palestinian states. Actually, technically there are three.

One is Gaza. It is governed completely by the Palestinians. This is the first instance in history of self-determination for Arabs in the historic land of Israel (As many have pointed out, the Palestinians are not genuinely a distinct group, just an extension of the wider Middle-Eastern Arab population). And look how that turned out. They voted in a recognized terrorist organization, who proceeded to eliminate all political opposition, ruin any hope of peace for it’s residents for the foreseeable future, subjugate it’s inhabitants, and launch a long bloody, pointless campaign against it’s stronger neighbour.

The second is the de facto Palestinian State in the West Bank. They have a President, a Prime Minister, a Parliament, a Police force, an entire bureaucracy and educational system, and tax raising and administrative powers, all aided and abetted by Israel. But they still refuse to take any proactive steps towards genuine peace, despite the Israeli Government giving way on many (too many) key issues, and granting them much autonomous power they frankly cannot be trusted with. And the West Bank is still a hotbed of terrorism and lawlessness, and any decorum that is there is due to the Israeli influence.

And the third, perhaps surprisingly, Jordan. At one point, more than two thirds of Jordan’s population were Palestinian, and they are still in the majority. Even the Prime Minister was Palestinian. This should have been satisfactory, but for uncertain reasons they launched a long and bloody campaign against the administration (of which much was Palestinian), and lost. Despite this, they are still the dominant force in the country, but refuse to integrate or acknowledge this.

And if you wished, you could count Lebanon, where too Palestinian groups took control of Beirut and launched numerous wars against Christian groups, and would have won without Israeli involvement.

All this is further proof of the general Palestinian myths. Firstly, the Palestinians neither desire nor will permit peace. Secondly, they are not a common historical entity. The Arabs in Gaza and the Arabs in the West Bank have less in common with each other than most Arabs in the region have with each other. Add to that that Arabs can, if they so wished, live perfectly harmoniously within Israel proper.

It is further proof, if proof were needed, that the only purpose of the ‘Palestinian cause’, is that the wider Arab population will not accept a large Jewish population or state as a neighbour, and wish the entire region to be exclusively theirs. That is their long term aim, not peace or self determination, for if they truly wanted either of those things they could have them in an instant. The Palestinians are simply a useful tool, as always.